The difference is you are still talking about an adult, and the girl we are discussing here was a CHILD. You cannot expect a child to have the same coping mechanisms that you expect of an adult.

And the vast majority of adults who commit suicide do have mental health problems.

She was like 16. I'm 20. I mean, I can clearly see the difference in mindsets here, but she's well past the age of social responsibility. I only think this is natural selection in its modern form. Granted, not everyone went through the same thing, so that's just my theory, but not everyone would have offed themselves because they were bullied at school.

Well I know that I was emotionally much more mature, and much more equipped to cope with such situations, at 20 than I was at 16. Age of social responsibility is irrelevant. The issue is her ability to cope with an abusive situation. A situation that should have been dealt with before it got to this point.

Of course not everyone would have offed themselves because they were bullied at school. But not everyone is bullied in the same way, or to the same point. And not everyone has the same surrounding circumstances (family situation, friends etc etc). You do not know enough about her whole life to judge her or make assumptions about her.

The thing is when someone has been beaten down (emotionally speaking) over and over and over, just as a child (or an adult) who has been bullied or a women who is being psychologically abused by her husband, they eventually reach the point where they feel so LONELY and WORTHLESS (particularly if they have been told over and over that they are such) that they can see NO way forward, no way to make things better, and nothing worth living for. Once your self confidence is zero, it's very difficult to get out of that situation.

I think it's very easy for you guys to sit back and call her a pansy or whatever, but you have NO IDEA what this girl has been through... how relentless the abuse may have been, how low she may have gotten, how WORTHLESS she may have felt. And you have NO idea what else was going on in her life. There may also have been family problems, she may have been abused as a child, she may have had no friends to turn to for support. You don't know anything about her, yet you're happy to sit back and judge her and assume she needed to grow a backbone?! Can you not see how cruel and arrogant that is?

I really can't see the cruelty. Suicide is the coward's way out, under any circumstance. My point was that even if I DID know what she was going through, it wouldn't have changed my opinion on suicide. I read her story, and yeah, it truly does suck, but suicide is the coward's way out, even in a situation that fucked up. Mindi's situation as well.

This girl was bullied because of a relationship she had with some guy a couple of months before. They called her all kind of derogatory names, and sometimes physically abused her. But honestly? This doesn't even come close to a situation where it's okay to consider suicide.

You're not getting it... you STILL only know as much as the media has told you. You still have no idea what else was going on in her life. And if you can't understand how much sexual abuse can DESTROY someone's life (I don't know if this girl was sexually abused or not) then I can't make you understand it. But women like Mindi, and others who have found themselves feeling so low that they can see no way further forward are feeling a type of pain that YOU can't even imagine, can't possibly comprehend. They are deeply haunted... they hear things, see things, think things that haunt their every breathing moment. And I have seen women in this situation reach the point where the pain is just TOO much to bear.

I know you can't get your head around this, but please at least TRY to imagine an emotional pain worse than you have ever experienced in your life. A pain that doesn't allow you to think about anything else, because it's so intense and always there. A pain that makes you feel dirty and worthless and deserving of death. THAT is the sort of pain that drives victims of abuse to suicide. And YOU have no right to say that this girl (who you know limited information about) was not experiencing such pain.

No, RF, I don't think YOU'RE getting it.

In times of the worst, rock bottom, most horrible situation of your life, suicide is not the answer. Ever. It's a thought that's with me in the back of my mind at all times, even when I do suffer from my depression. It will never, ever get to me. It shouldn't get to anyone else who doesn't have a mental illness. When you hit rock bottom, you always have to keep the thought in your mind that there's nowhere else to go but up.

That's very easy to say when you've never been in that situation (sexually abused). Buit if you don't even want to TRY and comprehend how horrendous such pain is, and why someone may not be able to see a way of getting through it, there is nothing I can do to change that attitude. I can only hope that most people try NOT to be so close minded and and be more empathetic. To believe that NO PAIN could EVER be SO AWFUL to make YOU want to give up is nothing more than arrogance.

I shouldn't need to force my mind into a situation of extreme distress, especially if I know the results of this experiment you want me to try so badly. Even so, I know life could be better if I focus on the positives rather than dwell on extreme negatives. You're telling me to put my mind into the shoes of someone who has been sexually abused, but I have a feeling if I tell you I wouldn't consider suicide anyway, you'll say that I don't know that because I've never been sexually abused. Is that where this discussion is going to lead us?

Even so, what brought up sexual abuse? She wasn't sexually abused. I've based my opinion off of what I read in the article. In fact, I'm pretty sure sexual abuse spawns severe mental illness which could lead to suicide, the very thing I was pretty clear about excusing from my list of opinions over the course of this thread.

Actually no, people who've experienced sexual abuse are often haunted and experience severe emotional pain but without falling into the category of mental illness or clinical depression. But even without the clinical depression the pain of what has happened can be so intense that they cannot see a way to live through it (I have seen at least one person kill themselves in this situation, and she did not kill herself as a result of mental illness. She killed herself as result of the effect the abuse had had on her).

And you actually told Mindi you didn't think her suicide attempt (as a result of sexual abuse) was justified. So YOU brought it up. (Although my other reason for using sexual abuse as an example is because I think sexual abuse results in probably one of the worst types of pain imaginable, and I am trying to make you think of a pain worse than you could ever imagine, as that is the type of pain which drives people to suicide).

I absolutely agree that we should focus on the positives rather than dwelling on negatives, and I agree that suicide is not a good way out. But I strongly disagree that it's a coward's way out. And I am simply suggesting that you COMPREHEND the possibility that people who commit suicide do so because they are experiencing a pain you can't imagine, and realise that you cannot possibly say with certainty what you would do in such a situation. I have seen people in situtations and pain you CAN'T imagine, and although I consider myself a strong person (and have never considered suicide in my life for any reason) I would never be so arrogant as to assume I could never find myself in that situation.

wow.. im so sorry mindi.. um may i ask what happen to your step-father?

A year in county jail, because the judicial system doesnt give a fuck about rape, or assult, they would rather put the pot heads in jail. Yes, that is my view. The system failed me not only once on sexual abuse but three times.

Mindi, I 100% agree with everything you have said and I am so sorry that you went through what you did! ((hugs))

It made me who I am, and brought me to the life I have today, all I can do is use my pain to help others. Thank you!

It's pretty sad that you think that. Clearly you've never been harassed or bullied that badly. It can get pretty awful.

@chiaromezzo - This is a thread I wrote 8 months ago. My opinion has changed a bit, but not much. I was bullied pretty roughly in middle school. Not in high school.

What you're talking about is apples and oranges though.

She was teased about simple things. She chose the easy and selfish way out. Kids today are pansy ass sissies.

When I went to Basic last summer, like I said, over 75% of the guys in my unit had NEVER been in a fight or had a physical confrontation of any type. And some of them LITERALLY broke down and CRIED when they got hit for the first time.

No, its not apples and oranges, whats simple to you may be very important to her. Whats important to you might not be important to me. YOU or I do not decide what sends people into depression, situational or otherwise.

I still don't get why you say that 75% of guys hadn't been in a fight as if it was a BAD thing? Is needless violence a GOOD thing in your world? Is THAT what you teach your kids... "if you've never hit another person, you're not a man".

Wow, what an example you set. Honestly, I'd say you're the pathetic one. Real men don't need to use their fists to prove their worth. The fact that violence is so important to you says a lot about you.

And just to let you know here...NEITHER of my kids have EVER been in a fight. I don't teach them violence is ok. At the same time, I do coddle them or shelter them from the reality of the world. I've taught ALL my kids, including my daughter to suck it up, cope, adapt to the situation, and continue on the path they've chosen for life.

It's ONLY words. Words only have the power we ALLOW them to have. Like someone else here said. The kids, or adults for that matter, that commit suicide have LARGER, underlying problems that GOOD parents should be dealing with at home. Self confidence begins and ends with the parents.

I disagree with that. There is far more that contributes to a child's self confidence than their parenting. Plenty of children with good parents have self confidence problems, because it's common! Self confidence often grows as the child gets older and gains more independence.

So I guess when your kids get hit for the first time and cry, you'll be ridiculing them too?

I am gonna add my two cents. Some people NEED an *** whooping. You can talk to some people until you're blue in the face. You can pelt them with your touchy feely PC bullshite, but when all is said and done some people only learn from getting their teeth knocked in once or twice for their actions.

I am not a violent person. I have fought only to defend myself and I will continue to only fight to defend myself and now my family. My son is being taught how to fight, but also being taught WHEN to fight. The rule I got as a kid was "I better never start a fight, but I have every right to finish one".

As for calling Music God pathetic. Lemme say this, when your being mugged or having your home invaded and you feel helpless cuz your S/O is showing you how much a REAL MAN he is....remember your words and hope they can stop your attackers advances.

Actually I live alone. I don't need a man in my house to feel safe. And just because a man chooses not to fight, and not to bully and ridicule others, certainly doesn't mean that he's incapable of defending himself or protecting his family if he needs to. Self defence is totally different from being violent to 'teach someone a lesson' or teaching a child that if they've never been in a fight they must be a big wuss, or if they cry, they deserve ridicule.

Lady. It's people like you that make this world a bunch of passive aggressive deviants. Look I am not saying punch your grocer in the face for her asking "Paper or plastic". I am saying that kids need to be tough. Weak kids make weak adults and weak adults make a world that can't stand on it's own two feet for fear of offending someone else delicate sensibilities. I almost think you are a Troll, cuz really only a Troll could cobble together and ignorant set of comments like yours.

Grow a set of cajones and toughen up buttercup. It's a big bad world out there and you want not get eaten alive.