Believe that if you wish... I, however, believe there is.

I'm Christian too, and I get what she's saying. Basically, 'true' Christianity (and I believe there IS such a thing, regardless of the countless interpretations one can draw from the Bible) consists of the following things:

- accepting others, regardless of their religious/cultural/racial backgrounds
- living a virtuous life (minimal alcohol/drugs/sleeping around, eating sensibly, and so on)
- loving/respecting others as you would have them love/respect you

And, I don't even think this applies just to Christianity. Other faiths have similar basic precepts; Islam and Buddhism are just two examples.

And, you don't even NEED to be religious to observe these 'rules'.

I think religion, in its optimal form, gives people a springboard to go on when their lives seem out of hand. It's a way to bring yourself back-to-base when you feel lost, if that makes sense. It provides a guideline for living a good, honourable life. No, you do not need to be religious to live a good and honourable life. But for those who need the guidance, it is certainly there for them. I find that Christianity has given me a good solid grounding in growing up, and has helped bring my family together, and has helped in making me achieve the things in life I have wanted to achieve (and continues to help me do so).

I only think religions are dangerous when they get to the itty bitty fine print, and when they take things far too literally. All religions are guilty of it, true. But it's only the minority in these religions who are guilty of it.

Does the fact that they call themselves the 'United Coalition of Reason' imply that anyone who DOES subscribe to religion is incapable of reason? xD

Lol but unfortunately (especially on the interwebz) you do come across many religious people incapable of reason!
Atheists usually tend to be good at reasoning because they had to make the move from lazy agnosticism to atheism.

Well agnosticism and atheism aren't mutually exclusive adjectives, yo. You can have a lack of a belief in God and still hold the position that it can't be proven either way.

Like, you can't say with 100% certainty that Santa Claus exists, or that flying monkeys exist, but I'm sure you can safely say they don't.

I'm not sure that statement is correct (though even as I write this I'm rolling it around in my head!). A true Atheist is not someone that simply doesn't believe in God. Lack of belief doesn't automatically make you an Atheist, because you may simply have not found a God that does speak to you. At that point, you are simply rejecting the theism that has been taught to you. E.g. Just because you don't like goat's cheese doesn't mean you don't like any cheese at all.

You also aren't technically an Agnostic, since to have reached this stage you would have to have considered the subject and decided that it is not possible to decide either way. In that sense, Lady Fairy is wrong because a true Agnostic isn't lazy - they presumably have considered both sides of the argument and decided there is not enough evidence on either side. Following on my example, they would have looked at the Goat cheese eaters and the cow cheese eaters and decided that there isn't proof as to which dairy product is better. (I'm beginning to regret my choice of analogy now!)

Logically, to be an Atheist you have at some point in your life considered all your options and decided that there is no God (you've sampled all the cheeses and decided you can't stand dairy!). If you have done this, you can't also be an Agnostic because if you believe there isn't enough evidence either way, how did you decide there is no God?

Of course, in real life (i.e. outside of Millie's head), most people do not give this much thought to the topic, so perhaps my belief of what these terms mean cannot be forced on to other people! In my own experience (because obviously I hold myself up as a model for all society to follow :P), I have never believed in a God (I was raised in an Atheist household), but I did not considered myself Atheist until I was 20, when I decided it was time to consider what my official view was.

The problem (as I see it) is that most Atheists approach the topic with a rationalised, mostly scientific (perhaps sterile) state of mind, and their decision is based on [mostly] reasoned conclusions. Anyone religious, however, has approached the topic with an inherent belief that does not require reasoning. You believe in a God therefore for you he exists. The only people likely to believe the Atheists (and vice versa) are those that are already wavering in their belief, because they have either lost or gained faith and are now trying to understand it.

Well you can't really decide that anything is a fact, so anyone who really is a true atheist or a true Christian are naive. I mean, I suppose you could believe (or not believe) all you want, but ultimately, you have no idea what's real and what isn't.

An atheist is someone who doesn't believe in a God. Someone who accepts the natural science as the purpose of existence. You can be an agnostic atheist in the sense that you would rather believe the presentation of tangible evidence, but still know that there is no 100% proof either way. At least, that is how I define myself.

But I can also safely say that I am educated enough on the Christian religion to make the statement that it's complete bullshit. If there is a god, it's not the Christian god.

Wow, I fucked that up. Allow me to retype that entire middle paragraph.

An atheist is someone who doesn't believe in a god, and would rather accept natural science as the purpose of existence. You can be atheist in the sense that you would rather believe in the presentation of tangible evidence, AND agnostic in the sense that, while you would rather go the scientific route, there's no 100% definitive answer.

Well, in my view then you are simply someone who has not decided or is hedging his/her bets (not you personally, but whoever applies your logic). At the end of the day this is all about beliefs. So you either believe there isn't enough evidence either way (Agnostic) or you believe there is no God (Atheist). There is no "correct" answer, since there is no way to prove who is right (until death, at least), so you don't have to worry about saying there isn't a 100% definitive answer.

If you are Agnostic, but would admit to "siding" with the Atheists if under pressure, then you aren't really Agnostic (if you were you wouldn't be able to make that decision... the fact you choose to "side" with the Atheists suggests deep down you don't believe in a God).

Whatever you believe, you can still acknowledge that there is no 100% proof either way. The people that 100% believe they are right (and everyone who doesn't think like them is wrong) are usually the fundamentalists (you don't need to believe in a God to be a fundamentalist - I would say that Richard Dawkins is a fundamentalist and he is quite fervently an Atheist). While I don't believe in God, I am quite happy to acknowledge that that is simply my belief and there are other schools of thought out there, all with their own evidence that say they are right, and I can acknowledge that in death I might even find out that I'm wrong (heck, it's a possibility!). That doesn't mean I doubt my own belief, it just means I'm sensible enough to realise that the universe is a big place and anything could happen!

First, let me mention that I'm not "siding" with anyone, by any definition of the word. No one's ever pressured me to pick a side. I've simply chosen the side that's provided the most evidence to its argument, and that side happens to be science. Christianity has, over the years, altered its own teachings to cover up other ways of life. For example, Jesus wasn't born on December 25th. He wasn't crucified on Easter. Halloween was never centered around the devil. Hell, for the longest time, the word "pagan" was thrown around as a pejorative term.

I wouldn't "side" with a religion that relies on manipulation and flat out lies to get their message across - more specifically, a message that goes directly against what they do as a religion.

And this is just Christianity. No other religion has come up with any sort of evidence to support their claims. Not one single religion. However, new science surfaces every single day, reinforcing the science we've all seen before. Evolution is a great example.

Science is also a completely morally neutral concept. I find much comfort in that concept, because I won't feel as if I'm being who I am because someone told me to, but because I have made that choice myself.

I haven't sided with anyone over pressure, nor do I ever plan to. I've made up my own mind, and I haven't constantly played devil's advocate for all these years in fear of being wrong about something.

Well as a lactose intolerant I love your analogy! ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIKeC9k2-Jg
I think this is a good vid that helps clear up the difference between agnosticism and atheism.

so, i checked out their website ...here is their mission statement:
The mission of the United Coalition of Reason is to raise the visibility and sense of unity among local groups in the community of reason, to create a national dialogue on the role of nontheists in American society, and to improve the way that nontheists are perceived by average Americans.

and this is a problem why?
i consider myself a christian....i do not attend church, but i do believe in god. the poeple who made these threats are the ones who give christians a bad name. not all act this way.
the billboard doesnt bother me. the message doesnt bother me. why should it.
i choose what i believe, and i think everyone is entitled to that.

We had these all over our buses in London for a while. Nobody cared.

We're in America, you see, home of the fundies.

How lame. That's one of the problems these days .. everyone is too worried about what everyone else is believing in or doing. I hate the people who think that if you don't believe in the religion that they do, then you aren't worth their time. Or you're going straight to hell in their opinion.

This is why I'm glad I live here and not in the US! Church attendance isn't a big thing over here and it's difficult to find militant Christians thankfully!
I went to a C of E school but even there religion wasn't a massive part of our day.

Yeah, I feel quite sorry for the US; it seems as if they've gotten beyond their fair share of militant Christians, which means that their opinion of Christians is slightly skewed towards annoyance/disgust towards them. It's a pity, since most of us are actually cool/nice/non-crazy people. xD

Oh I can vouch for that; I have a lot of friends that I didn't realise were religious until I read about it on their Facebook pages! And that's ok by me :)

At the moment, around England, there are lots of billboards advertising 'The Alpha Course'. They look like this:

(Instead of 'possibly', I do believe the option should be 'maybe') I found the results of their poll quite amusing, and you can see them if you go vote here.

I meant probably, not possibly.

I think that's crap, everyone should be entitled to their own opinion. Plus, I think the billboard could help someone. Say if someone grew up in a very religious household and was doubting their religion, it would be nice to know that they are not alone in their feelings and it's perfectly normal to question religion.

Well, shit. I'm offended by Christian billboards - and a lot of other billboards, too, such as ads for gated communities that I can't afford to live in, but I don't think they should be taken down, because I'm not an overbearing bitch. :)

They have billboard ads for plastic surgery here in socal. I find that highly offensive because its gives out a bad message but you don't see me bitching about it. I don't get people, especially religious people when it has to do with anything about doubting god.

How is that billboard any different from a religious billboard? I see them randomly on highways and streets, but you don't see anyone bitch about them. Funny how religious people get offended by that but they don't think it offends people when they come up to us and try to talk about god. Everyone is entitled freedom of speech whether it be believing Jesus doesn't exist or if they believe. People just need to get over it. Such hypocrites!