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Discussion Forums » General Discussion
Hyporcracy of the Gay Rights Movement
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28 Apr 2009, 21:38
Lady Sheri
Post Count: 71
However, this is the problem. People get all worked up and compare homosexuality to alcholism and pedophilia and other other terrible things. However, they are just living their own lives not hurting anyone. It is this thought process that makes apathetic people lean towards this thought process.

And there are some compelling theories that are showing that homosexuality is actually genetic and it is NOT a lifestyle choice. This does not automatically mean that it is a disease, but that it is not a choice.
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28 Apr 2009, 21:42
Mary Magdelene
Post Count: 506
Again, not my point. My POINT was that not approving of an action does not make you closed-minded. What DOES make you closed-minded is not allowing that person to live their life the way they see fit. Just because one does not approve of homosexual behavior, just because one does not feel the lifestyle is appropriate, does not automatically deem them as closed-minded. You can "receive" new ideas without accepting them as your own or as appropriate. Just because you don't accept a new idea doesn't mean you are closed-minded. Not even allowing that others accept the new idea is closed-minded.

Calling someone closed-minded because they do not approve of homosexuality is a gross misuse of the term "closed-minded". It's not about approving of something or disapproving of something. It's about not allowing them to safely choose their own beliefs to it's appropriateness.
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28 Apr 2009, 21:52
Lady Sheri
Post Count: 71
Did you even read my post? I never said anything about being open/close-minded. I have never said anything like that. I was pointing out that people who would typically not care, but don't necessarily agree with a homosexual person and their life, would be less inclined to embrace it because of people who demonize it. Because of this, things like prop 8 happen.

If you agree with the genetic/homosexuality theories, and if you still don't agree with homosexual life style, it's no different than saying you don't agree with someone with red hair or green eyes. If they can't choose what their characteristics are, then why do you disapprove?

And moreover, why should your, or anyone elses approval matter? That is ultimately the point I am trying to get across. Why should this even be a debate?
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28 Apr 2009, 21:56
Mary Magdelene
Post Count: 506
My approval SHOULDN'T matter, but to some it appears as though full approval is needed in order to be open-minded. I fully believe that homosexual couples SHOULD HAVE the same civil rights everyone else has. Doesn't mean I have to approve of their lifestyle. I may not approve of the behavior based on my religious beliefs, but that doesn't mean I won't fight for their right to the same civil liberties/rights others have.

My comment on open/closed-minded wasn't directed towards you, I'm sorry if it appeared that way. My comment was directed towards those who for some reason think that you are closed-minded if you don't approve of the behavior.
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28 Apr 2009, 22:03
Mary Magdelene
Post Count: 506
It is completely different than not accepting a person's hair or eye color. Hair or eye color is not a behavior. I do not agree with or approve of homosexual behavior based on my religious beliefs. Choice or no, I still don't approve of the behavior. But as I said, it doesn't mean I don't think they deserve the same civil rights everyone else gets, marriage included.
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28 Apr 2009, 21:46
Mary Magdelene
Post Count: 506
I would also like to say that I understand and AGREE with the new theories that homosexuality can be genetic. I do not believe it is that way in ALL cases, but I do grant that it may very well be in many, if not MOST cases.

Choice or genetic, approving of the behavior isn't a requirement of being open-minded, just as disapproving of the behavior doesn't immediately make one closed-minded.
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29 Apr 2009, 00:25
Fiat
Post Count: 288
The analogy could work if you consider the fact that alcoholism and homosexuality are both sins to Bible-believing Christians.
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28 Apr 2009, 23:30
KJVBIBLEMAN
Post Count: 49
Wasn't long ago alcoholism was called what it really is...SIN..If the alcoholic has a disease I guess so does any drug addict. That is just another example of man trying to make his SIN more palatable and shirk the responsibility of that choice they made to involve themselves in drinking etc. .
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28 Apr 2009, 23:52
Lady Sheri
Post Count: 71
Have you ever stopped and considered the correlation between depression and alcoholism and drug abuse? Depression is a chemical imbalance, and considered a disease. In my opinion, alcoholism and drug abuse is a symptom of depression.

In addition, homosexuality is not a disease. So by bringing it up again and you are obviously (albeit subtly) trying to make a comparison. They are apples and oranges.
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28 Apr 2009, 23:55
KJVBIBLEMAN
Post Count: 49
I didn't beat around any bush. Homosexuality is a sin as well as the others. Yeah and all the teens I work with and all the teens I went to school with were serious depressed so they drank and did drugs. C'mon lets not be so naive. People do these things because sin is enjoyable. Why is it so hard to admit.
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29 Apr 2009, 00:21
Lady Sheri
Post Count: 71
I'm not talking about social/occasional drinking/drug use (not that I condone it). I'm speaking of actual abuse of one of these substances.

I refuse to play the sin game with you. As I have said once before, you can't put religion up as an argument if the other person does not believe. Don't try and justify it. I won't play those games. I came here for a debate, not Sunday school.

I'm not the naive one. Don't call me naive. I'm trying to use modern science to give valid points. You are talking about sin. Sin is subjective. So, unless you believe that modern science is completely invalid, then drop the sin talk.
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29 Apr 2009, 00:43
KJVBIBLEMAN
Post Count: 49
That is ridiculous. Truth isn't based on what you believe. 2+2=4 whether you believe it or not, whether you accept it or not. Sin is what God says it is not what man wants to make it.
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29 Apr 2009, 01:18
Chris
Post Count: 1938
You're over simplifying. 2+2=4 (math) is a proven science. Christianity is not.
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29 Apr 2009, 01:40
KJVBIBLEMAN
Post Count: 49
Oversimplification proves point. And I might remind you that science doesn't always give us the right answers either. They often revise and dismiss what they already put forward as truth. In fact I just read an article in Time speaking to the dinosaurs and how they became extinct.
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29 Apr 2009, 01:43
Chris
Post Count: 1938
How does your third sentence relate to your fourth sentence?
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29 Apr 2009, 01:46
KJVBIBLEMAN
Post Count: 49
Science doesn't always give us the right answers....case in point...need a road map?
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29 Apr 2009, 03:37
Lady Sheri
Post Count: 71
So basically what you are saying is that all modern science is wrong, and ONLY what the Bible says is true? So my entire life basically becomes invalid because I don't live my life for your God. This shouldn't be about religion. What's next, the sky isn't blue anymore because Jesus comes in a dream and tells you it is green??

You can believe whatever you want, but your beliefs should not dictate any other persons life. Don't pretend to be superior or try to hide behind your Bible.
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29 Apr 2009, 03:38
KJVBIBLEMAN
Post Count: 49
Not even going to attempt an answer for such a silly comment.
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29 Apr 2009, 03:51
Lady Sheri
Post Count: 71
I beg to differ. I'm not sure what was that silly? You are the one that was trying to discount modern science and brought up dinosaurs and what not (although I'm still not sure why dinosaurs were brought up...). Trying to make "sin" be your main argument against homosexuality. Like I said, sin is subjective. There are way worse things in the world.

I was just trying to follow your thought pattern here. Apparently I didn't get your version of the road map.

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29 Apr 2009, 04:21
Lady Sheri
Post Count: 71
Oh, and just for funsies, here are a few tidbits I have found for you!

"Research shows that between thirty and fifty percent of individuals with alcohol dependence also suffer from major depression, during one or more of the stages of the disease."

"Both depression and alcoholism have a genetic component that increases an individualís vulnerability. Moreover, each can aggravate the onset of the other condition."

"Heredity plays an important role in the onset of alcoholism and depression. Family history increases the propensity to develop either or both disorders."

http://www.learn-about-alcoholism.com/alcoholism-and-depression.html

So, it's not necessarily that someone CHOOSES to be an alcoholic... there is actually a REASON! to cause it.

There are studies that show that homosexual and heterosexual people actually react differently to pheromones. Meaning a homosexual man is more attracted to male pheromones rather than female ones. And we all know pheromones are a part of sexual attraction.

Also, there are studies in the correlation of what your dominant hand is and your sexuality. Since I don't feel like paraphrasing...

Data from 6,182 homosexual and 14,808 heterosexual men showed that homosexual men had 34% greater odds of being non--right-handed than heterosexual men, and data from 805 homosexual and 1,615 heterosexual women showed that homosexual women had 91% greater odds of being non--right-handed than heterosexual women. Both of these differences were statistically significant. A number of recent studies have also indicated that gender identity disorder is associated with non-right-handedness.

http://www.questia.com/googleScholar.qst?docId=5001903452

The anatomy of the brain is actually different in homosexual people. There are certain parts of the brain that are larger in homosexual men than in heterosexual men. These are differences that one day could give undeniable proof that genetics is a big part of lifestyle.

So why is it so difficult to believe that sexual orientation, depression and alcoholism is actually genetic and NOT a choice.
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29 Apr 2009, 05:15
just samma;
Post Count: 204
gay left over here. =)
i had no idea about that.
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29 Apr 2009, 05:15
just samma;
Post Count: 204
that should say "gay lefty"
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29 Apr 2009, 05:27
Lady Sheri
Post Count: 71
HAHA! Are you really left handed? My brother is gay & left handed, his boyfriend is gay & left handed, someone I was best friends with for six years is gay & left handed, I'm bisexual and ambidextrous. I find it to be quite interesting as I don't feel that I chose to be bisexual. I never actively decided that I also liked girls. It was something that I felt since child hood and never really thought twice about it...
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29 Apr 2009, 17:59
just samma;
Post Count: 204
Yeah I am. Joy's not though.
Now i'm tempted to poll all my friends and see what the results are. haha
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29 Apr 2009, 11:45
KJVBIBLEMAN
Post Count: 49
Last note on this complete irrelevant information. God calls all of these things sin and sin it is. Justify it how you choose, but ultimately the answer of My genes made me do it didn't work in the Garden of Eden and will not work at the judgment. Also the excuse of my father and mother made me this way will not either. If I was Gay I would being offended that somehow here you says I am defective. And I am being argumentative here because it is in my nature and genetic make up as well so you should cut me some slack as well. Oh yeah, I was clinically depressed and anyone here that knows me knows where I was...I didn't suddenly go to alcohol and drugs.

Sin is sin. and the wages of sin is death. Homosexual is against nature itself. I don't need to draw you a picture to show how God's design was obviously intended for a man and woman. He calls it an abomination, immorality and ultimately each person will have to answer for their sin before God and not some professor at a university or scientist.
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