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Discussion Forums » General Discussion
DON'T GET A FLU SHOT!
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22 Oct 2009, 22:28
~*Jodi*~
Post Count: 162
This is a long topic and it seems to have gotten many people riled up. lol. I spent 2 days sporadically reading this topic just so I could see what everyone had written. I don't have children, but I do have dogs and I did get them vaccinated when they were puppies. lol. And I am not a doctor, so if those two things make my opinion mean less to some people I don't care; it doesn't mean I am not informed about vaccinations.

What started as a flu vaccination topic ended up talking more about meningitis and measles and chicken pox and living past 100 years than the flu. Did anyone else realize that? LOL. I do not take the flu vaccination, although I probably should, and I have gotten the flu 3 times in my life - and literally, I wished for death. If the H1N1 is worse than the regular flu, then I should probably consider getting one because I do not want to feel that bad ever again in my life. It is miserable.

And I do have to defend Red Fraggle on a couple of things. She's right about vaccinations. Everything she posted and all of her research is correct. And although someone said she has a Ph.D., she has an M.D.[or whatever the UK's equivalent of that is...] When I get my Ph.D. in Business Management, although I'll have "Dr" in my name, I still won't be a medical doctor. So there is a difference. I know some medical doctors who are completely inept, and several surgeons who continually botch people's surgeries. I know some people with Ph.D's who can't spell to save their lives. So, in some ways, the degree someone holds doesn't necessarily mean that they are an expert or smarter than anyone else. And they are all human beings, and humans are apt to make mistakes at times.

Having said that, I have talked to several people about the relation of autism and vaccinations. I talked to Dr. Davis [or dean of nursing], a medical doctor, and several people with doctorates in Early Childhood Education, and one who has a Master's in Early Childhood Ed and who spent 20 years working with special needs children. They have all said the same things basically which is that although some parents believe vaccinations caused their children's autism, nothing has proven that. There's a spectrum of autism and some children are misdiagnosed and written off as autistic when they're not autistic. They said that some parents said their child exhibited signs around 2 years old after a set of shots, but that autism exhibits itself at that age anyway and nobody can say for sure that the vaccinations caused the autism. Just because B follows A does not mean that A caused B. So there's no way to say that vaccinations WILL cause your child to have autism. Or that they're "dangerous" to all children. Most of the time, the illness is much worse than anything the vaccination may do.

I was vaccinated as a child. So was my mother and my brother. Because of the vaccinations, we did not contract measles, mumps, etc., In the years since I was a child and had my vaccinations, our government and the doctors in America have greatly increased the number of vaccinations. When my mom was a kid, they put the polio vaccination on a sugar cube and you had to eat it. It wasn't like that when I had my shots 17 years later. They didn't have the chicken pox vaccination when I was a kid (or I didn't get it) but I got the chicken pox and it wasn't that big of a deal. From what I understand, chicken pox can be deadly in adults.

These days they do tend to give kids too many shots too soon. If a person doesn't agree with the vaccination schedule, they can always slow it down or not get certain shots, and they can also get a second opinion if that pediatrician is not respecting their decision to refrain from vaccination. It is the parent's decision whether or not to vaccinate their child, and that is not something that we should take away from them. Once the government starts forcing us to do anything they will force us to do other things. It's a slippery slope and we should retain the right to make decisions about our bodies and our children's bodies.

It's not necessarily child abuse if they do not vaccinate... And if the child gets sick then I would feel sorry for the child for being sick, but I would not feel sorry for the parent for having a sick child because that's a risk associated with not vaccinating your child. Children shouldn't be subjected to a miserably or deadly illness just because the parent is scared of pharmaceutical companies. I think that parents need to talk to their doctors, do research, and consider each child on an individual basis. Is it going to be more harmful or beneficial for THAT particular child to get a vaccination?

Everyone has to make that decision for themselves and then live with the consequences. This is one of those cases where you'd have to ask yourself, if your child did contract a deadly illness because they didn't have the vaccination and it was your decision, how much guilt would you feel if the child died?
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22 Oct 2009, 23:59
~RedFraggle~
Post Count: 2651
You know, I think I pretty much agree with everything you've said, except that deaths from chicken pox, even in adults, are still rare.

And I'm MBCHB (UK equivalent of MD, and I have no PhD).

And when I had my polio vaccine at the age of 15 or so it was drops and a sugar cube! How is it given over there?
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23 Oct 2009, 01:30
~*Jodi*~
Post Count: 162
I got a shot for polio.
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23 Oct 2009, 13:09
Acid Fairy
Post Count: 1849
Gosh when I got polio at 15 it was just the medicine - no sugar for us! I remember everyone coming out going 'eughhh it tastes like sperm' ;D
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23 Oct 2009, 13:39
~*Jodi*~
Post Count: 162
LMAO!!!!!! Yeah so next time I taste sperm, I'll be like "hey, this tastes just like the polio vaccination!" That would freak 'em out!
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23 Oct 2009, 22:15
Acid Fairy
Post Count: 1849
Haha oh my gosh you so should ;D
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23 Oct 2009, 14:19
Madeline Rain
Post Count: 151
Wait. you got your polio vaccine at 15? That's so strange. I got mine (some sort of syrup, not a shot) around 2 or 3. I still remember it because it was the only one that didn't hurt.
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23 Oct 2009, 17:17
~RedFraggle~
Post Count: 2651
I think kids here get it when they're toddlers too (but I don't remember that one!). But we get another one at 15 as a booster (we also get a dip/tet booster at 15 too).
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23 Oct 2009, 18:05
Madeline Rain
Post Count: 151
Maybe I should look into getting a booster. You know, because parents who don't vaccinate children are putting not only their children but everyone at risk. The last thing I need is to get polio or gawd knows what "erradicated" illness just because of mass ignorance.
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23 Oct 2009, 20:21
~RedFraggle~
Post Count: 2651
Yeah, to be honest I probably should have had an MMR booster. I meant to get it when I worked in paeds (as there had been some mumps cases in the area, as result of the MMR-autism scare a few years earlier), but never got around to it. I think I completed the courses of all of the others though.

You're highly unlikely to get polio though. Measles or mumps are more likely, as those are definitely coming back. Interestingly, there's a life threatening condition called epiglottitis (where the back of the throat swells to the point that the person obstructs their airway and can't breathe), which is caused by haemophilus influenzae (which is prevented with the HiB vaccine). It used to be mostly seen in toddlers, but because of the HiB vaccine, it's now rare to see it in a child, and much more likely to be seen in unvaccinated adults. Haemophilus can also cause meningitis. It's really nasty, and is one which rarely gets mentioned in the vaccine debate (as is meningitis C, which is also a killer).
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23 Oct 2009, 18:07
~*Jodi*~
Post Count: 162
I remember getting shots as a kid, and then getting some before 1st grade [kindergarten was not required way back then, lol.] but I don't remember ever having to get any follow-up shots like that. When I went to college, they just got my shot records from my high school, and when I transferred to a 4-year university from a 'junior college' they did the same thing. They never asked me to get any boosters. I have heard of them, but never gotten them. I wonder if that means I should get some?

That leads me to a question for the parents who are not going to vaccinate their children... Most colleges in the US require children to have certain shots and if they don't have them, they have to get them or they don't get accepted. Is that okay with you? You can't home school college. So, are you okay with the child getting the vaccinations at 18 when he/she can make that decision for themselves? Or would you prevent them from getting them in that instance also even if it means they can't go on to college?
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23 Oct 2009, 19:04
~*Jodi*~
Post Count: 162
I have a question. Isn't it true that the reason that diseases such as the measles, mumps, polio, etc, are not as prevalent anymore because we have had a generation of people who were vaccinated? When my mom was a kid, and when my grandmother was a kid, these diseases were killing people because there wasn't any vaccinations. But now that we've had people vaccinated, they have all but died out. If people stop vaccinating completely then would they [theoretically] make a return in the world?
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23 Oct 2009, 20:15
~RedFraggle~
Post Count: 2651
Yes, exactly! That was the point I made when someone started making claims that someone is more likely to live until 100 if they are unvaccinated (lol). I made the point that if you ask any 100 year old how many of their childhood friends died of these diseases, I think you'll find a significant number lost friends or siblings.

And they ARE returning. Cases of measles (and mumps) are already increasing as a result of the MMR scare, and I think Lady Acid Fairy gave another example of this, with whooping cough, further up the thread.
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23 Oct 2009, 20:39
~*Jodi*~
Post Count: 162
I don't want to speak for someone else, or upset that person, but... I asked someone about that, and their response was that they don't believe that the diseases are coming back from lack of vaccinations, but for other reasons governmentally and pharmaceutically created. Is that even possible?

It seems what I learned from science is that the reasons they died out in the first place was due to vaccinations and so the reason they would come back would be lack of vaccinations. Maybe I'm wrong, but that seems more likely than to think that the government or pharmaceutical companies are making the measles have a comeback.
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23 Oct 2009, 22:20
Acid Fairy
Post Count: 1849
These are the kind of people that think HIV was created in government labs and injected into gay people *eye roll*
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23 Oct 2009, 19:07
~*Jodi*~
Post Count: 162
Ah, looking at our CDC's website, I realized now why I didn't get a follow up polio vaccination.

It said:
The final dose should be given on or after the 4th birthday and at least 6m from the previous dose.
If dose #3 is given after 4th birthday, dose #4 is not needed if dose #3 is given at least 6m after dose #2.
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23 Oct 2009, 20:12
~RedFraggle~
Post Count: 2651
I'm not sure why it's different here.

This is the UK childhood vaccination schedule.

2 months: DTP/Polio/Hib (Diphtheria, Tetanus, Pertussis, Polio, and Haemophilus influenzae b) - all in one injection, plus:
Pneumococcal (PCV) - in a separate injection
3 months: DTP/Polio/Hib (2nd dose), plus:
MenC (Meningococcus Group C) - in a separate injection
4 months: DTP/Polio/Hib (3rd dose), plus:
MenC (2nd dose) - in a separate injection, plus:
Pneumococcal (PCV) (2nd dose) - in a separate injection
Around 12 months: Hib/MenC (combined as one injection - 4th dose of Hib and 3rd dose of MenC)
Around 13 months: MMR (Measles, Mumps and Rubella - combined as one injection), plus:
Pneumococcal (PCV) (3rd dose) - in a separate injection
Around 4-5 years: 'Pre-school' booster of: DTP/Polio, plus:
MMR (second dose) - in a separate injection
Around 12-13 years: (girls) HPV - three injections. The second injection is given 1-2 months after the first one. The third is given about six months after the first one.
Around 13-18 years: Td/Polio booster (a combined injection of Tetanus, low dose Diphtheria, and Polio)
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23 Oct 2009, 20:36
~*Jodi*~
Post Count: 162
Wow. Ours is much longer than that. And it goes from Age 0 to 18, then we have an adult schedule also. I didn't realize that we should get the TD/Tdap every 10 years. I'm glad this forum popped up because I have learned alot, and I think I need to go see a doctor and get some shots before I get heartworms. [That's a joke - dogs get heartworms.]

Seriously, though, is it okay to get the H1N1 and the regular flu vaccination at the same time?

If anyone else wants to see what the vaccination schedules are in the US, here are the links to the PDFs:

AGES BIRTH TO 6

AGES 7-18

ADULT, AGES 18-70
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23 Oct 2009, 23:35
~RedFraggle~
Post Count: 2651
As far as I know (and I could be wrong), the only one which adults need to get updated every 10 years is tetanus.
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23 Oct 2009, 22:18
Acid Fairy
Post Count: 1849
Haven't they stopped TB vaccinations over here now (which I got around the same time as the polio/diptheria etc)? I was lucky to get it because I was at the right age when they had that TB outbreak among high schoolers a few years ago, so they started immunising everyone against it for a while. If they have stopped it, I think that's pretty silly. I wouldn't want TB!
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23 Oct 2009, 23:34
~RedFraggle~
Post Count: 2651
Nope. England and Wales stopped it (although I believe Wales have started again). Scotland have always given the BCG (the TB vaccine). Because we're smarter up here. ;) Here women get called for cervical smears from the age of 20 too (I still can't believe that in England it is 25).
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23 Oct 2009, 23:35
Acid Fairy
Post Count: 1849
Oh no I'm glad I don't need to go for another 3 years! ;)
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23 Oct 2009, 23:38
~RedFraggle~
Post Count: 2651
Yeah, but you won't be glad if you go at age 25 and discover you have cervical cancer, which, 3 years earlier could have been diagnosed as pre-cancerous cells, which are far easier to treat. :P I hate going for smears, but I'd rather that, and catch anything early, than get cervical cancer.
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23 Oct 2009, 23:41
Acid Fairy
Post Count: 1849
Ooh nice and cheery then!
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24 Oct 2009, 00:23
~RedFraggle~
Post Count: 2651
Lol. Sorry, getting the English age for smears reduced is something I feel strongly about. But yet another reason to be glad I'm Scottish.
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