Wrong diary, I am also Acid Fairy.

WELL, IT SEEMS TO BE A MOOT POINT. IF THE TWINS SHARE ALL THEIR ORGANS, THEN THEY WILL HAVE NO CHANCE OF SURVIVING ANYWAY. THE SURGERY WILL ASCERTAIN TO WHAT EXTENT THEY SHARE ORGANS. AND ANY CHANCE OF ITS SUCCESS WILL DEPEND ON THIS.

OF COURSE THE BRAIN IS ALSO AN ORGAN. SO THEY DON'T COMPLETELY HAVE ONE SET OF ORGANS. YOU YOURSELF HAVE ONE SET OF ORGANS, BECAUSE YOU ARE ONE PERSON. IF YOU HAD STARTED SEPARATING IN THE WOMB AND ANOTHER HEAD HAD COME OUT OF YOU, THAT WOULD BE ANOTHER PERSON, WHO HAD A DIFFERENT PERSONALITY. THERE IS NO SET NUMBER OF ORGANS WHICH MUST SEPARATE FOR A PERSON TO BECOME TWO PEOPLE. SEPARATION STARTS WITH THE HEAD. ONCE THEIR ARE TWO BRAINS, THERE ARE TWO PEOPLE.

THERE IS NO SET NUMBER OF ORGANS WHICH MUST SEPARATE FOR A PERSON TO BECOME TWO PEOPLE. SEPARATION STARTS WITH THE HEAD.

You've just given me a new perspective of conjoined twins. I've always seen the unseparated parts as belonging to one twin (the stronger one) and the weaker one missed out. But thats not the case at all. They both equally own those parts.
When I saw this case I couldn't help wonder which was the dominant head? Which one belonged to the body. I didn't really stop to think that they both do!

YES, YO! I KNEW A GIRL AT SCHOOL WHO WAS BORN AS A COJOINED TWIN, BUT HER TWIN DIED AS A BABY SO WAS CHOPPED OFF OF HER. THEY SHARED A LEG - BUT THE LEG WAS ACTUALLY DOUBLE VEINED (THAT WAS THE EXPRESSION SHE USED - I'M NOT SURE IF THAT IS THE MEDICALLY ACCURATE TERM TODAY) - IT HAD VEINS FROM BOTH TWINS IN IT. SHE HAD A STUMP WHERE THE LEG HAD BEEN REMOVED, BUT THE STUMP WAS STILL DOUBLE VEINED, WHICH MADE IT A BIT ABNORMAL. SO IT'S LIKE THE LEG BELONGED TO THEM BOTH. LIKE, IT WAS THEIR MIDDLE LEG OF THREE, I THINK.

I THINK IT CAN GET COMPLICATED IN CASES WHERE THERE ARE TWO ARMS AND TWO LEGS AND TWO HEADS - EACH HEAD INNERVATES A SEPARATE ARM AND LEG. I THINK THAT IS THE CASE FOR THOSE GIRLIES THAT ACID FAIRY AND LAUREN POSTED - ONE MOVES ONE ARM AND LEG AND THE OTHER MOVES THE OTHER ARM AND LEG, SO THEY HAVE TO WORK TOGETHER IN A COORDINATED WAY. I WOULD GUESS THIS WOULD HAPPEN WITH THESE TWINS TOO.

APPARENTLY THERE IS A THEORY THAT LOTS OF US START OUT AS IDENTICAL TWINS IN THE WOMB, BUT THE OTHER TWIN DIES BEFORE EVEN BEING NOTICED. APPARENTLY IF YOU'RE LEFT HANDED, IT'S LIKELY THAT YOU HAD A RIGHT HANDED IDENTICAL TWIN WHEN YOU WERE IN THE WOMB, WHO DIED PRETTY EARLY ON (OF COURSE, THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH COJOINED TWINS, BUT AN INTERESTING ASIDE ABOUT IDENTICAL TWINS, YO!).

APPARENTLY THERE IS A THEORY THAT LOTS OF US START OUT AS IDENTICAL TWINS IN THE WOMB, BUT THE OTHER TWIN DIES BEFORE EVEN BEING NOTICED.

That is an interesting theory. It makes sense too considering we take so long to create one offsrping. If other animals are having litters, why wouldn't we?

Tough to say, but if the baby only has one set of organs, and will die because of this, then I think they should do whatever they can to save her (which I assume would be removing the other head). If she has two sets of organs... She obviously has a fighting chance, and I guess that would be up to the parents

They do not have two upper bodies. They share an upper body which contains two hearts and two sets of lungs.

I suppose I didn't mean "body" so literally.

That article is poor because this is not a two headed baby, it is conjoined twins.

I looked online and both brains appear to be working therefore it is two babies, not one.

It appears we do not know yet which organs they share and which they don't, but they clearly don't share every organ as they don't share a brain.

I think if they can be saved (and if they can be seperated) then I think everything should be done to give THEM a chance at life.

YES, YO - IT IS A NAUGHTY SENSATIONALIST ARTICLE, TRYING TO MAKE THE TWINS SOUND LIKE A CIRCUS FREAK. THE STORY IS ALSO REPORTED FROM MORE REPUTABLE NEWS SITES WHO DESCRIBE THEM AS COJOINED TWINS, AND HAVE A PICTURE OF THEM - AND INDEED, BOTH BABIES ARE ALIVE, WITH LITTLE TUBES PUT UP THEIR LITTLE NOSTRILS TO HELP THEM BREATH.

POOR LITTLE THINGS, YO - GOSH, IT WOULD BE SO CROWDED TO SHARE YOUR BODY WITH SOMEONE ELSE! INCIDENTALLY, THERE WAS TOTALLY AN EPISODE OF HOUSE WHERE A LITTLE BOY WITH ONE BODY AND ONE HEAD STILL HAD PART OF HIS TWIN IN HIS BRAIN, YO - IT WAS VERY INTERESTING. LIKE THEY HAD TO CUT THE BRAIN CELLS OF HIS TWIN OUT OF HIS BRAIN.

I saw that episode. The one where he was seeing aliens? That was interesting.

YES, YO - LIKE THE BRAIN CELLS OF HIS TWIN KEPT TAKING OVER, AND HENCE HE BECAME A DIFFERENT PERSON. GOSH, I WONDER HOW MANY REAL LIFE CASES THERE HAVE BEEN OF THAT - I ASSUME IT MUST HAPPEN, AS THEY BASE THEIR CASES ON REAL (ALBEIT RARE) CONDITIONS.

Obviously its a conjoined twin.

But it stopped separating neck down (maybe). Therefore its one body with 2 different heads. Its a 2 headed baby. :p

Actually, we don't know yet, internally, what is seperated and what isn't. There may be two of several organs. Just because they share a torso does not make them a 'one headed body'.

A person is not defined by their body. Are you defined by your torso, or your internal organs? Is a person who has had a heart transplant not themselves anymore? Are they now the person who's heart they were given? No, of course they're not. Because they are the same person with the same brain, the same personality, the same thoughts and beliefs. Regardless of what has happened to their individual organs.

Because a person is defined by their brain, by their personality, their mind etc. These babies do not share a brain, therefore they are defined as TWO people. They just happen to share a torso.

Fine it is ( or may be) a body with 2 peoples heads on it. Whatever. lol. Its a 2 headed baby.

That paragraph totally contradicts itself. How can they be "2 people" (pleural) and a "baby" (singular) at the same time? It's one or the other, and to be correct about it, they are two people who are conjoined, because they have two brains and it is the brain which makes us who we are.

Out of interest, if you were to meet conjoined twins one day, how do you think they'd feel if you told them that you saw them as only one person because they shared a torso?

"if you were to meet conjoined twins one day, how do you think they'd feel if you told them that you saw them as only one person because they shared a torso?"

you're either confused or just making assumptions. If I met a conjoined twin I wouldn't tell them I think they're only one person because they share a torso because thats not what I think.

The child in the article could possibly be ONE body with TWO heads. As you've said yourself we don't know yet. A male child with 2 heads recently died in Indonesia. ONE body, TWO heads. And by one body I mean one set of organs. He died because one body cannot sustain two heads as you know. So there is a very good change that I'm never going to meet a two headed person.

The seventeen year old twins in my opinion are not a 2 headed person. They have seperate upper bodies. Again by bodies I mean their internal organs.

You get caught up in symantics so I'm sure we could argue about this forever.

by one body I mean one set of organs.

What do you think the brain is? It is an internal organ. And probably the most important one as it is the one which makes us individuals. You repeatedly ignore this.

These babies do not share a brain so they do not share all of their internal organs. To you, based on your definition of it being one baby if there's only one set of organs, how many organs exactly have to be shared for you to believe it's one person rather than two? Or is it specific organs that matter to you?

They don't share a brain. So what if they shared a heart but had their own livers? Or if there was two hearts and four lungs but only one kidney? Where do YOU draw your line?

You've also still to answer my previous question... If a person is defined not by their personalit, mind or brain, but by their thoracic organs, then what about someone who's received a heart donation? Are they not themselves anymore?

And the other 'baby' you were talking of will not have died because they shared a body but because they shared a heart.

What do you think the brain is? It is an internal organ.

*** I'm pretty sure you know I meant the organs in the body (And by body I literally mean body, ya know the bit below your head).

Where do YOU draw your line?

**** Somewhere around the neck.

You've also still to answer my previous question... If a person is defined not by their personalit, mind or brain, but by their thoracic organs, then what about someone who's received a heart donation? Are they not themselves anymore?

**** I probably ignored you because I never said the two heads didn't have their own personalities. I never said anything about the two people that make up that one body. You brought that up and just assumed how I define personality.
I'm speaking in a physiological sense. If its A body with TWO heads on it then its a two headed body... or a two headed baby.
I get it. Its 2 people that didn't separate properly. They're so intwined that they only formed one body and have two heads. Its a two headed baby! lol


And the other 'baby' you were talking of will not have died because they shared a body but because they shared a heart.

*** Yeah, the one heart in the one body... with the two heads on it.

Honestly, I just like saying two headed baby cos its just soooo wroooong. I also know you can't help yourself and have to reply. The more I say two headed baby the more worked up you get. ;)

And by body I literally mean body, ya know the bit below your head

The head is a part of the human body. The 'body' is the entire thing. You mean the organs within the thorax and the abdomen. That is not the same as organs within the body (which include the brain).

From freedictionary.com: Body: the entire structure of an organism (an animal, plant, or human being)


Somewhere around the neck.

You are contradicting yourself. Earlier you said that you consider the American twins (who share a thorax, which is below the neck, or what you are refering to as a 'body') to be TWO people. Earlier you said that your reason for saying this is ONE BABY is because of the number of ahared organs. So I'll ask my question again... how many organs have to be shared for you to consider it to be one person? Or is it a particular organ which matter to you? What if they share the heart and lungs, but each have a seperate liver? Or they each have individual sets of hearts and lungs, but share one kidney? One person or two??

I'm speaking in a physiological sense. If its A body with TWO heads on it then its a two headed body... or a two headed baby.

Nope, in a physiological sense, the 'body' means the entire body, including the head. And a 'baby' does not refer to only the part of the 'baby' which exists below the neck. A 'baby' describes the ENTIRE baby, from head to toe.

*shared organs. :P

As it turns out, the baby girls each have their own heart, and each have their own spine. Would you still say that it is ONE baby? Afterall, the spine extends below the neck... the heart exists below the neck. Of course they share many other organs, but the American teenage conjoined twins also share some organs. Which brings me back to my original question, where do you draw your invisible line between it being one baby or two babies?

I'm extremely curious to hear your answer to this.

This is taken from the article from CBS (http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/07/30/world/worldwatch/entry5198003.shtml):

"Baby Girl Arciaga," now under observation at the Philippine Heart Center, was born with two hearts contained in one sac. The heads have separate brains and spines, but share most other vital organs, including lungs and kidneys.

"This is a very rare case. It's new even to us," Dr. Ruben Flores, FMH's director, said in a television interview.

The condition is called dicephaly monozygotic conjoined birth, and it occurs in only one out of 80,000 live births.

Doctors at the Philippine Heart Center said oxygen and medication has been keeping the girl – technically a pair of conjoined twins – in stable condition, but an underdeveloped heart threatens their life.

Their complexion turns dark whenever they cry because of a hole in one of the hearts.

"Eventually if one heart fails, the other one will be affected," said Dr. Flores.

Speaking to CBS News Friday, Dr. Ludgerio Torres, director of the Philippine Heart Center, completely ruled out any operation to separate the conjoined twins, but said doctors were optimistic that the girls could survive.

A scan confirmed that the baby on the left has a normal healthy heart.

The hole in the other baby's heart is believed to be correctable, but doctors are not in a hurry to operate as antibiotics and oxygen are helping keep the twins in a stable condition. More importantly, said Torres, "together, they help one another," with the healthy heart bolstering the other.

Torres said the babies were being fed intravenously, but they've also started bottle feeding. So far, their "sucking reflex has been wonderful," added the doctor.

For the Arciaga family, it would not have been a complete surprise to have twins. Both sides of the family have twin members.

But ultrasound images before the birth showed only one baby, so the couple did not expect twins, much less conjoined twins.

Salvador Arciaga, the father, earns a meager income as a cycle-taxi driver. He appealed to the public for financial assistance.

"Please help our baby. Please support us and help us extend their lives," he said.

The Arciagas could only hope that their twins end up like Abigail and Brittany Hensel of Minnesota, who for 19 years have been living with one body. They can walk, run, ride a bicycle, and even drive.

The Aguirre twins from the Philippines, who were joined at the head, underwent a series of surgeries at Montefiore Medical Center in New York City in 2004, and are now living normal, healthy, and physically separate lives.

But these are rare cases. According to the University of Maryland Medical Center, the overall survival rate of conjoined twins is somewhere between 5 and 25 percent.

Salvador and his wife remain hopeful that their daughters will survive.

"I hope she lives. Because if she does, we will do everything that we can to raise her well," said Salvador.

As it turns out, the baby girls each have their own heart, and each have their own spine. Would you still say that it is ONE baby?

****Nope.

One baby, in my opinion, was a a single body below the neck with 2 heads on it. I thought I was being pretty clear about that. One body meaning no shared internal organs (below the neck... within the "body").

The difficult part in communicating with you is that you insist on technical definitions. Understandable, but frustrating, considering I know, you know what I'm trying to say.

Doesn't matter anyway because it turns out its not "one body".

One body meaning no shared internal organs (below the neck... within the "body").

Did you mean ALL shared organs? Because if there was no shared organs then they would quite clearly be two seperate babies.

And in that case you're contradicting yourself again, because these babies do share many organs (just not the heart). As do the American twins. So you're saying that to you, for it to be one baby, there must be no individual organs? Yet, you're saying you don't (any longer) consider these twins or the American twins to be 'one baby' as you no longer see them as having 'one body'. But in both cases some organs ARE shared.

The difficult part you have with discussing this with me is that I'm pointing out the huge holes in your logic. I don't know what you're trying to say because what you're saying is illogical. You keep contradicting yourself and make no sense.

Yep. All shared organs. I think I meant to say no separated organs.

The only times I've contradicted myself is when you've made assumptions about what I'm saying. You seem to do that a lot.

Its simple.

I'll use the example of the boy in Indonesia because he really was a baby with two heads. He had to potential to be two babies but it didn't happen.

Below the neck is one complete human body, no doubled parts, just one complete body. Above the neck there are 2 identical heads.

That is a 2 headed body. I don't care how many technical terms you throw at me. If its one complete human body with two heads on it, its a two headed body.

You know I'm right. :p

Basically, in my opinion, for it to be a body with two heads they must completely share organs below the neck.

Actually, until I read about these conjoined twins I didn't even know it was possible for them to stop seperating at the neck. I had no idea there were any cases of one body with 2 heads on it. Now I know.