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Discussion Forums » General Discussion
No-Kids-Allowed Movement Gains Steam
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3 Aug 2011, 00:40
kein mitleid
Post Count: 592
This whole thing reminds me of a forum in the past where someone was talking the merits of marijuana by stating it was "all natural" and contained no "chemicals" unlike tobacco smoke. *facepalm*

Alright, listen Bloop people. I have a PhD in chemistry. I know more about chemistry than you do. (Unless you're also a PhD chemist.) Don't try to sound knowledgeable on a subject you are clearly outclassed in, it just makes you look dumber.
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3 Aug 2011, 17:19
Unauthorized
Post Count: 72
I'm sure you are more knowledgeable than the majority in this case, but I couldn't help but let my mind wander to the Dr. Pepper commercial here..("Trust Me, I'm a Doctor..") Now, I'm just angry with myself for getting sucked into the realm of commercial references. I'm angry with your statement for reminding me of Dr. Pepper and sadly, I do not have any..screw whatever we were talking about before, this is suddenly more important.
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7 Aug 2011, 05:27
K♥Blah
Post Count: 65
OK, I should probably read through the 7 pages of this forum to make sure no one else typed this before me, but 7 pages is EPIC. I'm going to have to take some time to read it all and by then I'll forget what I wanted to say (I will read after I write this though)

My boyfriend and I went to the movies last night and he mentioned that the Cinema near my house now has "Mums and Bubs Wednesday". They have specific screening times for movies so that mums can take their babies along and watch the movies without the concern of bothering other people.

It is slightly weird though, I jumped online to check it out and you would think (or I did) that it would be childrens movies - it's not. It's far from childrens movies, they are screening things like Friends with Benefits and Captain America. So I guess it's more a case of screening for parents who want to see their movies but can't do it without taking the baby along.
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7 Aug 2011, 05:42
K♥Blah
Post Count: 65
I don't think I'm playing devils advocate here, but I'm going to say I am anyway haha (I already posted on this forum one page 1...under my other account, but I've had time to think again)
So I don't think anyone mentioned this and I'm sorry if someone has;

Half the reason children shouldn't be taken to fancy restaurants or - I don't know - some places, not all. I'm going to use fancy restaurants as my example though - half the reason children shouldn't be there is because - lets face it they do act up, they start running around, the scream, the start throwing things and if there's more than one of them, they start playing games on the floor, getting in the way and running into people.

You know why they do that? THEY'RE BORED!. After the foods gone (or before it comes) and the parents/adults are having grown up conversations, these kids get restless - there's nothing for them to do, there's nothing to entertain them and they neeeed something to do to keep them happy and usually, because children have awesome imaginations, it leads them playing games in a more physical, running around, role-playing type game. Colouring books and blocks only entertain for so long.

The amount of times I've been out to eat and the children there have driven me mental - it's usually because the group of parents they are with are too in deep coversation with eachother to notice what the kids are doing. So long as the child isn't screaming/crying in pain, they let them run riot.

It's not up to the restaraunt to entertain the child (especially if it's a fancy place), if you don't want you're child acting up and "misbehaving" take them to a more child friendly place.

(P.s. I know I said it before, but I want children - I'm not a childhater, I thing children are awesome. I'm only saying this because I don't want to come accross as "attacking" anyone. I'm not. I'm just pointing out that not all children are badly behaved. It's not that they are spoilt or rude or naughty, it's just like I said - they are bored)
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7 Aug 2011, 05:49
Winged Centaur
Post Count: 301
The places that are becoming adult friendly do NOT want your children there...so why do YOU want your children there?
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7 Aug 2011, 21:42
Ashalicious
Post Count: 90
Wow this thread got huge fast. I personally am one of those parents who doesn't see it fit to take my 5 year old to a PG-13 or R movie, but I guess I was blessed with more common sense then most. o.O I think for movies of those ratings it is highly acceptable to give a child free time, as children shouldn't be in them anyway. If I'm going to see the 500th animated animal movie, then I don't think I need a child free time since it's purely for children. I also agree about banning kids after 10pm, they shouldn't be up and out seeing movies that late anyway, keeping them up that late creates an over-tired child more prone to fits.

I personally tip well always, and my daughter almost always eats out with me. I am the person to leave a $5 tip for a $10 check, but I believe in tipping well based on the service - not based on if my child is there or not. It's sad to hear those who take kids often do not tip well, it's not fair to the servers who usually have more on their hands when children attend with parents. My daughter is well behaved, not always, but she knows better when we are out. I am not above taking her into the bathroom for a spanking or going home if she misbehaves and "the look" is all it takes to curb any potential naughtiness at a restaurant 99% of the time. I keep her entertained, we work on spelling, reading and drawing, we discuss table manners before hand, why we can't run around, and using our inside voice. I think parents are mainly the reason for this. Kids will occasionally act up, even the best of them, but parents don't do their job when they go out. I would not take my daughter to a fancy restaurant unless on a rare special occasion and I felt she could behave there, and I would respect any place that did not allow kids. Back East she went out with us to a very nice place and did very well, but I didn't take a break from my job as a parent. I respect places that do not allow children because we all need a break from kids once and a while!!

Airplanes is a bit unfair in ways because all kids do tend to get restless there, but if you bring enough entertainment it should cut down on the fits. And if your child is crying on a plane pick them up and fix it however you can as quickly as you can. This would be the time to coddle a child you normally wouldn't just to shut them up and not drive everyone batty.

Grocery stores I have a problem with, since not everyone can hire a babysitter to go grocery shopping every week or however often. Again, it's back to controlling your children and parenting, no matter where you are. My daughter is 5 and if she acts up in a store she sits in the basket like a baby. That is motivation enough not to misbehave. We shop at Whole Foods, and in my area they have kid sized baskets so she can help while I shop. It keeps her entertained and productive, and every time we go adults are smiling at her and laughing at how cute she is at helping. We all have to get food though, and it's a little unfair to limit kids at grocery stores in my opinion.

Am I the only parent who had one of those backpack leashes for my child when she was little to keep her from running wild? How come these are not handed out at the hospital after you give birth? They sure prevent a lot of crazy kid behavior because your midget cannot go more than a foot away from you. And they are totally safe and non-painful for those who will be appalled I suggested such a thing. ^_^ My daughter's was a fuzzy bear backpack that I fastened her in with a tail for a leash. It was soft, safe and prevented ANY running around or taking off.
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7 Aug 2011, 22:00
*Forever Changing*
Post Count: 847
@Ashalicious, a lot of people find those backpacks degrading, I dont, but many do. I had one for my 5 year old, because when we would go to places like the mall or the zoo she would quit using her feet and literally hang from my arm. I have back problems as it is, so I could not lug her around when she decided she wanted to just hang there. The leash portion was never used until she decided to hang, and to be honest she hated it. She would rather hold my hand then walk alone so she learned really fast to walk right or I would turn her backpack into the "rope" as she called it.

I dont think anyone suggested full bans on airplanes or grocery stores. One of my friends even commented to me when we were talking about it, that grocery stores should just have kid free hours or a kid free day! I personally love that idea. And its not even "kid free" most places have an age limit, like no one under 6, or whatever.
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9 Aug 2011, 08:49
Ashalicious
Post Count: 90
I don't find them degrading if they keep my child nearby and safe. My daughter did really well on hers and would even ask for it. I find them great for safety if they can be used.

I don't mind a kid free hour at a grocery store, but places like that shouldn't try to go all kid free. I can understand age limits as well on some things, it's just unfortunate for the children under the limit that are well behaved.
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9 Aug 2011, 09:10
KerriBlue
Post Count: 260
I can understand how people would find it degrading. I think my mum would have loved those things back when I was toddlering around - the amound of times I walked off would be enough to scare any parent.
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19 Aug 2011, 17:37
Leona Wren
Post Count: 425
I think those backpack leashes are pathetic; it makes a child look more like an animal then a human being. And if we are supposed to be controlling our children should we not be able to handle them and have taught them well enough NOT to need a leash? There is always putting them in the cart, where they cannot just run around without using a leash.
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20 Aug 2011, 07:37
Transit
Post Count: 1096
@Queenbutterfly

I don't see the difference between a shopping trolley/cart and a lead, they both control the child/ren's movement in the same way, only you can use reigns as a lesson, just as practicing walking down the road holding hands etc. When mine are old enough that they don't need a push chair, if I'm doing something such as shopping etc where I cannot guarantee to always be able to hold their hand, they will definitely have reigns as I'm not willing to put trust in things such as road safety/shop safety etc into the hands of a two year old. When they earn my trust, I'll take them off.
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20 Aug 2011, 16:20
Leona Wren
Post Count: 425
@Transit - I'm sorry, I just don't view it as the same. If you or anyone else is comfortable using them go ahead! But my children will never be on a leash.
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20 Aug 2011, 19:52
Winged Centaur
Post Count: 301
The whole leash argument reminds me of the House episode when House teaches Rachael (Cuddy's daughter) to use toys and whatnot and treats her like a dog, giving her treats and whatnot and saying "Good Rachael, Bad Rachael." It was rather hilarious.

Obviously we don't want to think of children on the same level as animals, but in some ways we teach them in similar manners. We teach with positive and negative motivation. We give treats to children when they behave, and there is punishment of some sort for bad behavior...kind of like how you train a puppy. Hopefully, rubbing your child's nose in their wet bedsheets is not necessary. ;D
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20 Aug 2011, 21:47
Leona Wren
Post Count: 425
I guess I must parent different; I don't give treats to my children for "good behavior." They are expected to behave. My toddler earns an allowance for her set chores (she understands what her chores are, and now does them without being told!) and that's probably the only "treat" I give her.

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21 Aug 2011, 04:13
Winged Centaur
Post Count: 301
Yes, but don't you take her out for ice cream occasionally? I would consider any sort of sweet to be a treat, since it's something a child doesn't require for sustenance. We totally didn't get desert if we didn't eat all of our vegetables as kids, which would be a form of negative reinforcement, while the desert itself being the treat for finishing our vegetables. For example.

A dog eventually learns not to pee in the house and is expected to behave without treats...
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21 Aug 2011, 14:33
Leona Wren
Post Count: 425
Yes but I never say, "We'll go out for Ice cream if you are a good girl," because that's teaching her that if she's ALWAYS good then she can have a treat everyday, all the time and whenever we go out. We do Mom and Daughter date night - which is something totally different from reinforcement of good behavior. We have our daughter/mom date night regardless of her behavior from a previous incident because that's something we habitually do.

Oh and I never use that, "If you don't finish your vegetables or dinner you don't get dessert." For one I don't believe that a child/adult has to finish everything on their plate; that is part of the reason why childhood obesity is so high as well as adult obesity. I don't mention desert unless she eats her food and then I wait a while because sometimes she doesn't even need it; especially not before bed.
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21 Aug 2011, 23:38
Winged Centaur
Post Count: 301
That's really nice that you have a mom and daughter date.

We were never blatantly told there would be no desert if we didn't finish our vegetables, but we weren't allowed to leave the table until we had eaten them, OR until everyone else was done with their desert (and once they were done with desert, that was the end of dinner, period). If we lasted through desert without eating cabbage (god, I hated cabbage), then we could leave...but no desert. Watching my brothers and sisters eating icecream or my mom's homemade cakes and pies can be a huge motivator to eat the cabbage.

We also weren't allowed seconds before everything from the first plate was gone, and my mom monitored everything we put on the plate. But growing up on a 90 acre farm, we were never in danger of obesity. I feel quite fortunate now. We were only allowed to play video games and watch tv after homework and outside play time (though in all honesty we loved outside play time), and of course Saturday mornings.

I don't remember the original point of this rather long tangent.
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21 Aug 2011, 23:44
Leona Wren
Post Count: 425
LOL. I loved your last sentence. I do that often.

Yes, I love having mom and daughter dates. I find it especially important since my toddler is having difficult adjusting to her sisters arrival and just needs that extra alone time with mom.

Unfortanetly when I was growing up we had mostly junk food to eat. I know my parents tried to cook healthy foods, but I come from a family where we had 8 children and two adults and my parents were pretty poor so it was "easier and cheaper" to buy a bunch of hotdogs and some doritos and cook that then it was to create a homemade dish. Not to mention my parents were gone a lot and so we were babysat by the television and computer; it sucked.

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9 Aug 2011, 18:10
Let It Be
Post Count: 226
All in all I can see the appeal for kid free times/places, but I understand how that would be really inconvenient for parents that do have half a brain and actually teach their kids how to behave in public. Its like they are being punished for all the morons who can't control their offspring.

Last night (7:30 on a Monday) I went to see Rise of the Planet of the Apes. A group of 3 kids and 3 adults came in, and the kids seemed well enough behaved from where I was sitting several rows back (they were probably ages 4-7 or so), but what baffled me was that the group split up between 2 rows right in the middle of where a young 20-something guy and girl were already sitting. So the 3 kids and one adult sat behind the young couple and the other two adults at in front of them, so anytime the parents in the front had to tend to their kids they'd have to lean over the seat right next to the 20-something girl. I just don't get why they'd inconvenience other customers like that instead of just picking one of the other areas of the theater that were totally empty. I'm surprised the younger couple didn't just move, I know I would have.

On another related note, my sister in law is one of these terrible parents that doesn't think twice about bringing their bratty kid to any public place. She adopted the 'do nothing but scream' parenting approach as soon as my niece got old enough to start misbehaving, so in public my SIL would either sit there and do nothing while she ran rampant, or finally snap and start yelling at her, both which were equally embarrassing. She was too selfish to ever sacrifice what she wanted to do (go out to eat or go shopping) despite the fact that her kid couldn't handle those situations. Better yet she'd always try to get me or her brother to come along to help control the kid for her. Even if my niece wasn't feeling well or was having a bad day, my SIL would still drag her out to a restaurant even though it was obvious there would be a melt down. It didn't take long into my nieces toddler years before we stopped going out with them all together.

Now my niece is almost 7, and while I love her more than the world, the aftermath of this lack of parenting early on is still very evident. My SIL always acted like my niece was just embarrassing herself, she never grasped the idea that her bad behavior was making us all look like fools (especially her, being the mother). I'm guessing this is the 'logic' that most of these idiot parents use to justify their actions (or lack of). As long as a parent is seemingly trying to do the right thing while their child acts up, I can keep my cool and let it slide. Otherwise, I have to fight the urge to knock their heads together in the hopes that both the adult and kid will smarten up.
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14 Aug 2011, 08:11
Ethan James
Post Count: 31
I understand this. I work in a childcare setting and I find that the children's' behavior is the result of the parents behavior. That and when the child is screaming loudly at a public place the parents don't want to take the time to deal with their behavior because it "takes too much time" out of their task or whatever. Recently we had a child at my little school that I had to restrain because he was physically trying to hurt the children--- way beyond hitting. This child was so out of control that I guarantee this child will be a juvenile delinquent before the age of 10.

A year or so ago I had a child throw a wooden ABC block at me because I had the audacity of asking him to stop running in the room. I turned and it happened to hit my nose and cut it open!! Do you think the parents did anything to the child to show him that this was not okay behavior??? NOOOOOOOOOO. Hell, my boss didn't do anything because enrollment was up and money is money. I ended up getting seriously bandaged on my nose and I still have a very slight scar of where that child hit me. This child was also quite known for his VERY SHORT temper and outbursts.

There is rarely any structure in the home now... just whatever is easiest to "shut the kid up". No manners. No respect. No rules. That's why children are the way they are today.
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14 Aug 2011, 08:38
R.
Post Count: 14
I don't only blame bad parenting or bad decision making about where to take your child for ill-behaved children. I also blame how the government has determined how to disapline a child now a days. Parents over-indulgence with their kids and the government saying a smack on the ass isn't ok, is making kids now-a-days, self entitled little heathens.
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15 Aug 2011, 01:01
Hey guess what.....lets not ban the kids, lets ban the obnoxious, lazy parents who let their children behave that way! Kids are exactly that....kids. They can and will act out, be destructive, scream, fight, and generally make you want to kill yourself! But....our children's behavior is a direct result of our parenting. I have 4 year old twin boys. One with severe ADHD. Yup they can be little brats....and yes sometimes they disobey, don't listen, or throw a temper tantrum. They're four! We address the issue and move on.....if they choose to deliberately go against the rules or act up in public they get one warning. If they do it (whatever "it" is) again there are immediate consequences...I have sat in the car for 1/2 hour with one of them while my husband and the other finished a meal in a restaurant. We've left movies, grocery stores, parks, etc because they wouldn't behave....and they learned and for the most part they are well-behaved, friendly, polite little boys that I'm not embarrassed to take out in public.
All that being said.....I'm the first to admit that if I can get out of the house without my kids and then have to listen to someone else's little brat scream and run around....yeah I want to strangle said child's parents....
Sure, having kid-free vacation spots, cruises, up-scale restaurants is a great idea.....movies...yeah i don't think kids should be allowed to watch half the crap I see kids watching at the theater these days. Kid free grocery stores? C'mon, I think that's just being a little ridiculous.

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20 Aug 2011, 06:30
Moonlight Shadows
Post Count: 90
Honestly.. I'm not seeing what the big deal is.

Remember back in school, when you'd have to do a group project and ONE person didn't pull their weight so EVERYONE got in trouble and got an F?

Yeah, it sucked. Yeah, it was totally unfair.. but it taught you a lesson. One person is all it takes to ruin it for the rest of us. *shrug* Time to apply those wonderful life lessons we learned in school to well, life.
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20 Aug 2011, 06:31
Moonlight Shadows
Post Count: 90
'sides, its not like they're shutting down the Dennys or the Chuck E Cheese. You can still take the kiddies out to dinner.
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