Oh bugger - didn't close one of my tags, so kind of lost the effect of the point I was making with bolding! ;D

@Bubblegum: This is what I was trying (obviously badly) to say up above. Thank you for saying it so much better! lol

Wow...I think everyone (Jess, Mindi and Donna) just needs to take a step back (I did not say calm down lol). Being an outsider and just reading the posts, I understand everyone's point of view/opinion and I don't see anyone attacking anyone else. I think that some defenses went up...just my opinion. We can talk about this rationally. :)

I was talking about it rationally. I'm not going to continue to talking to someone who doesn't see sense rationally, period.

calm down, over-react, step back, it's all the same to me, really.

Lol, the worst part is, I was just adding my insight, I am not excited, worked up, or anything. I pointed out that it wasnt that way for everyone and I was told I got touchy!? Honestly I could care less about Elizabeth Taylor dying. Its sad, thats all I said. It doesnt matter if you are 9 hours old or 99 years old its still sad! When Michael Jackson died. I shed tears, when my husbands family was killed, I could not stand I was crying so hard. There are different degrees of sadness, and thats what I think Pagan wasnt understanding about what I was saying.

And honestly, its a proven fact when you tell people to calm down it pisses them off more, it does nothing to calm them down. Common sense would then tell you, when you tell people to calm down, when they arent upset, then obviously they will get annoyed.

What's the big deal about this? Patchwork was just stating that it's sad that a person, celebrity or not, died. It's not like she's saying we should hold a candlelight vigil in honor..just giving news and saying that it sucks that a celebrity she likes died. Don't get your underwear in a bunch, jeeze.

@Kelsey Lynn: That's exactly what I was saying, thank you! :)

Yes, she was saying that she found it sad. Nothing wrong with that, and no one said there was.

Equally Pagan was saying she didn't find it sad and she doesn't understand why people find celebrity deaths sad. Nothing wrong with that either.

@Bubblegum yeah, but she also says it in a condescending tone. "Its not like we personally miss them."

I don't read that as condescending. Simply true. You can only personally miss someone whom you personally knew. Maybe your understanding of the word 'personally' in this context is different from mine. To me, personally missing someone means that you had a personal relationship with them and thus you are missing them as a person whom you personally knew. A personal relationship implies that it is two-sided - that both people knew each other.

And Pagan was saying this specifically to explain why she doesn't understand why people get upset about celebrity deaths. She had said 'I dont get the hype when celebrities die' and was then elaborating on it to explain why.

I am completely bewildered as to why this is being interpreted as condescending. I mean, if Liz Taylor's daughter had posted about how she missed her mum, and then Pagan had said 'Yeah, well I don't care about an old rich woman dying', then yes, that would be insensitive, but this is not anyone's personal loss, and no one here has expressed that they are totally grief stricken and sobbing into their pillow inconsolably, so I think it's fair enough to question why so many people make a big deal of celebrity deaths when we don't have personal relationships with celebrities.

Shoot, sorry, stupid thing cut off the rest of my post. Let me remember what I said...

That quote was a broad generalization that is inappropriate to the topic at hand. Just because she doesn't have any personal attachment, doesn't mean its wrong if someone does. And if people do have personal attachment to celebrities, its not our place offer opinions about them. You don't know the situation and unless you take the time to ask about it, don't judge it. That's that.

I also agree with Pagan that I don't really get personal attachments when celebrities die, but just because someone else does, doesn't mean they should be regarded as less than who they are.

@kelsey: hehe, your reply got sent to my inbox. The arrow you made is what cut it off. Bloop was waiting for a closing carrot ;D

The rest of your Post: She doesn't know whether people personally miss celebrities or not. I don't think it's her place to make such a broad generalization and quite frankly, its rude. I understand that maybe she doesn't personally miss them and she might feel no attachment, but it's not a big deal if someone else does. It's their feelings, something no one else has a right to have an opinion about.

I won't personally miss Elizabeth Taylor, because I didn't grow up in an era that was big with her, but I respect that many people might miss her and I won't be condescending about it.

Haha thanks mucho. I knew I said something along those lines, but I like my first argument better xD

So did I ;)

But no one said it was wrong. Saying you don't understand something is not the same as saying it's wrong. It seems like people are being a bit hypersensitive to the fact that someone has expressed honestly that she doesn't understand their feelings, and they are interpreting this lack of understanding as personal judgement on their character or something!

AMEN!!

Not once did I say someone elses feelings were wrong -just that I dont get it. And I am as entitled to my opinion on that as anyone else. Nowhere did I question other peoples losses- just stated that I have lost many- as I imagine a lot of people here have.


And rude and condescending would have been something like "All you freaks grow up and get a real life that doesnt centre around missing dead people you never met"
Not once did I say or think something like that. You may find me rude because you chose to misunderstand my intentions - I find you narrow minded and presumptuous ;)

@Pagan and Estella: Maybe it's just my friendship with Jessica, and my experience with how she talks to people (and therefore her inexperience with knowing how she sounds to people), but there are many times I read her posts and know the tone she's trying to express, whereas others would misunderstand. If anything, it was more of a miscommunication on my part and I probably should have stayed out of it.

Fair enough. I was looking at the words she used, though, not her motivation behind them. Words do come across a certain way. When you know someone really well, you can use shortcuts and they know what you mean, but if you don't know people well, then you (the generic you - not you in particular!) have to consider your words, and how they could come across.

I'm also looking at the fact that all her responses are about herself - this is not about style, sarcastic or otherwise, but about content - interpreting comments as if they were all about her.

If someone expresses sadness at the loss of their dad, and confusion as to why society makes a huge deal over celebrity deaths, then it wouldn't even occur to me to see this as an attack on myself. I would see it as about their own sadness and the larger questions that arise as a result. The less self-centred, more mature response would have been along the lines of 'Sorry about your dad. The sadness I feel about Liz Taylor is not of the same depth as the sadness I feel for family members, but I feel some sadness nevertheless, for the following reasons.....'

To say 'You may not personally miss a celebrity, but that doesn't apply to everyone' is simply repeating what Pagan has said in different words, but in a corrective way, as if Pagan had expressed unawareness that others miss celebrities. So it seems patronising to tell her it as if she didn't know, and as if she was saying that her feelings applied to everyone! It also suggests not having read Pagan's post, and instead replying to something you think she said.

This is why the comments seem reactive and angsty, whether or not intended. Regardless of her style, they are jumping to conclusions and arguing with things that have not been said, rather than reading the actual posts. So it seems like argument for the sake of it, rather than communication which actively intends to make oneself clear and understand the other person. Pagan was actively trying to clarify and understand and to find common ground, but was just being attacked whatever she said.

For the sake of actual meaningful discussion and increased understanding of each other's viewpoints (I live in delusional hope that this might someday happen on Bloop! ;D) it would be quite interesting if some of the people who are sad at Liz Taylor's death could explain how they feel so attached to her, and how this differs from their attachment to people with whom they have a relationship - people who know them and care about them. Some of us who don't get attached to celebrities have explained some of the theories, but it would be better to hear from the actual people who experience the feelings.

It's sad that she died & I'm more sad for her family because I know what it is like to lose someone. Same with Michael Jackson & Farrah. Honestly when Captain Phil Harris from Deadliest Catch died I cried like he was a family member. Yes I didn't know him personally but to know & understand what his sons where going through & to see his family & friends go through the pain I went through when I lost my grandma, it hurt & make me sad.

We are all allowed our own opinions about things but that doesn't mean that someone can say that people who are sad for celebs dying is because they haven't lost as many people or enough people to really know what its like to lose someone. Or however it was put or can be put. We each have different ways of responding to things.

Also if you don't care then why read a thread about it & post that you dont care?

**made me sad.

It's really common when someone posts a thread about something that they think is important for people to post that they don't think it's important. It's the main thing in life that people disagree about - what is important and what isn't. Pagan was expressing that she didn't understand why people get upset about someone they don't personally know. She wasn't saying it was wrong to get upset (which some people seemed to interpret her as saying) - simply that she didn't understand it. And then she speculated why it could be. People do often speculate as to the reasons for human behaviour which they find odd. But if people are never allowed to say that they don't understand a reaction, then there will never be any dialogue or empathy between people with different reactions and understandings.

That's fine & I get that. I'm the type of person that does speculate about why someone does this or that or doesnt do this or that. My question is why click on a thread that you know is about something you don't care about? I'm not saying that she's wrong or anything for posting her opinion. That's just what has me curious.

Maybe Pagan found it interesting that other people do care. Maybe she wanted to express that she didn't care. Maybe her own loss experiences have made her feel a bit irritated when people wax lyrical about the death of someone they never met, and so she wanted to say something - wanted to say she doesn't get it. I don't know. But this is me speculating about why Pagan posted, just like she was speculating about why people get upset about celebrity deaths. And with speculation, it's not fact - she could post here and say 'Actually, no my reason was something different'. Or, if she follows in the trend of misunderstanding the word 'maybe', she may post 'How dare you say I found it interesting that people care! I didn't! You made an evil assumption about me' ;D

Personally, for myself, I feel nothing about the fact that Liz Taylor is dead, but I clicked on this thread just to see what people were saying. It's Bloop, after all - there are hardly ever new forum threads, so one might as well click and have a look!

True. I've always been a rather curious person so I tend to ask why someone does something. But you are right. All we have is speculation. After all, we don't live in their head so how could we know with out being told?

That's a good point, there are hardly new threads. Might as well click & see what is goin on.