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Discussion Forums » In The News
Elizabeth Taylor dead at 79
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24 Mar 2011, 07:27
Jessica [Private]
Post Count: 1751
(CNN) -- Elizabeth Taylor, the legendary actress famed for her beauty, her jet-set lifestyle, her charitable endeavors and her many marriages, has died, her publicist told CNN Wednesday. She was 79.
Taylor died "peacefully today in Cedars-Sinai Hospital in Los Angeles," said a statement from her publicist. She was hospitalized six weeks ago with congestive heart failure, "a condition with which she had struggled for many years. Though she had recently suffered a number of complications, her condition had stabilized and it was hoped that she would be able to return home. Sadly, this was not to be."


I heard this on the news earlier, I've been so sad about it :(
There will never be another Liz Taylor.

Source: http://www.cnn.com/2011/SHOWBIZ/03/23/obit.elizabeth.taylor/index.html
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24 Mar 2011, 07:28
Jessica [Private]
Post Count: 1751
The source link has a very long story about her. I didn't want to post too much :(
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24 Mar 2011, 08:54
~*Pagan*~
Post Count: 378
My dad died at 60. far sadder than a rich rich rich OLD woman who had a great long life filled with much money and many choices.

I dont get the hype when celebrities die. Its not like we personally miss them.

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24 Mar 2011, 15:14
holyemoly.
Post Count: 7
Sometimes celebs are people's idols. To some people, having your idol die can be as painful as having a family member die.

That's not how I view it. But I also don't have any celeb idols or even keep up with their lives. My idols are my parents.

I'm sorry your dad died so young. That truly is sad. :(
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24 Mar 2011, 18:46
Jessica [Private]
Post Count: 1751
@pagan: You may not personally miss a celebrity, but that doesn't apply to everyone. I personally miss Liz Taylor, she was someone I really loved.
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26 Mar 2011, 02:48
Estella
Post Count: 1779
Some people use celebs to grieve their own loved ones vicariously, as it were, especially if they never fully dealt with their grief - I think a lot of this happened when Princess Di died. All those grief-stricken Brits weren't grieving Di - it was a chance for them to be able to cry publicly about death, and thus express their feelings about their own personal losses.

And for some people, it's something glamorous and romanticised and sentimental and dramatic - like enjoying watching a sad movie while crying one's eyes out. The whole idealistic romanticism people build up around celebs. Celebrities are romanticised, and death is romanticised, so it becomes a sort of luxurious wallowing in some sadness not their own. Like Victorian London taking a day of mourning on the installment of The Old Curiosity Shop where Little Nell died!
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24 Mar 2011, 23:25
~*Pagan*~
Post Count: 378
I get that people idolise the public persona that celebrities put forward. But we dont really KNOW them. We dont miss them around the christmas tree or wonder how we can celebrate the birthday of someone no longer there.

I have idolised celebrities as well. But I believe I grew out of that when I lost someone I love.
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24 Mar 2011, 23:43
*Forever Changing*
Post Count: 847
@Pagan, that is just you, I dont think its something that everyone "grows out of" my baby brother was murdered, so I know the pain of losing someone I loved, but I still get sad when a celebrity who I "loved" dies.
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25 Mar 2011, 00:07
~*Pagan*~
Post Count: 378
Im not being critical so dont be so touchy. Maybe losing enough 'real' people makes us immune to celebritiy loses.

But like you said, maybe thats just me. I find the death of one of our soldiers in Afghanastan or the baby who drowned in the recent floods here far more tragic.
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25 Mar 2011, 00:10
*Forever Changing*
Post Count: 847
I am not touchy at all, I am just pointing out that not everyone reacts the same.

I have lost many 'real' people, as you put it, but for me death is death, now maybe Elizabeth Taylor dying is not as sad as my Husbands family who died last month in a car crash, killing his cousin, her husband and their three children, but its still sad none the less.
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25 Mar 2011, 03:53
Jessica [Private]
Post Count: 1751
@pagan: My sister was killed when I was 15 years old. Pretty sure I've lost a 'real person'. Maybe losing a 'real' person makes you immune, that does not apply to everyone.

It certainly does not make me immune to a celebrity loss. Especially not one that I've loved since I was a child.
I'm not sitting here crying over her death, but it is sad nonetheless.
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25 Mar 2011, 04:48
~*Pagan*~
Post Count: 378
I DID say maybe that was just me. I simply dont get the hype. I am not having a go at you personally because you are sad about it.
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25 Mar 2011, 05:05
Jessica [Private]
Post Count: 1751
"We dont miss them"
"Maybe losing enough 'real' people makes us immune to celebritiy loses."

Coulda fooled me.
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25 Mar 2011, 05:13
~*Pagan*~
Post Count: 378
Calm down. I was generalising over a large group of people. Many people I know simply dont care about celebrity deaths. THAT was my point.
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25 Mar 2011, 05:24
Jessica [Private]
Post Count: 1751
I am calm? I really don't appreciate being told to calm down when I am in no way upset.

You do a really piss poor job of getting your point across, is MY point.
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25 Mar 2011, 06:45
*Forever Changing*
Post Count: 847
I thought I was the only one who got uber annoyed when told to calm down or not to get all worked up. Honestly it takes me a lot to get worked up lol and I have learned to not let bloop forums be something that does it.
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25 Mar 2011, 07:57
Jessica [Private]
Post Count: 1751
@minnie: serrriiiousslyyyyy. I hate being told to calm down. I feel like it's the most idiotic thing you can say to someone, considering pretty much every time someone says it to another person, that person just flips out on them for saying it. But seeing some twat online tell me to "calm down" (or in your case, tell you "don't be so touchy") just takes the idiot cake. How are you going to tell someone you can't even SEE to calm down?

I'll remember to be a bitch in the future and not be sad that a person died. MY BAD.
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25 Mar 2011, 19:20
Chris
Post Count: 1938
@Mindi and Jess: "Calm down" is a way of talking down to somebody and making them seem irrational in order to make it seem like your point is more rational and therefore holds more water. It really is a piss poor tactic if I do say so myself.
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25 Mar 2011, 23:06
Jessica [Private]
Post Count: 1751
Precisely, thank you!
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26 Mar 2011, 00:29
Estella
Post Count: 1779
Or a way to let someone know that you find their melodramatic overreactions annoying and inappropriate. I do see Pagan's point here. She was stating her opinion calmly, without attacking anyone, and her 'calm down' was in response to a ridiculous bit of passive aggressive sarcasm, basically telling her that she didn't mean what she said she meant, rather than listening to her explanations.

I think Pagan does speak on behalf of a lot of people. I don't feel sad when celebrities die, and I know a lot of people who also don't feel sad. And often it is younger people who feel sad, because they are more likely to build up sentimental idolisation of celebrities, so it is a thing that lots of people grow out of. Obviously the whole world doesn't fit into this pattern, but it is nevertheless a common pattern.
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26 Mar 2011, 06:45
~*Pagan*~
Post Count: 378
Again thankyou.
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26 Mar 2011, 00:53
Estella
Post Count: 1779
Maybe you're unaware of this, but you really don't sound calm. You sound all angsty and angry and overreacting, while Pagan is simply trying to explain to you what she meant. The fact that your angsty overreactions prevented you understanding her points does not automatically mean she does 'a really piss poor job' of getting her point across. Her point made perfect sense to me.

These are forums. People disagree. If you post about a celebrity dying, of course there are going to be people who say they don't care. This is normal. People are allowed to have different opinions from yours, and, golly gosh, they are even allowed to find you angsty!

Personally, I also am not going to be missing Liz Taylor around the Christmas tree nor wondering how I can celebrate her birthday without her (funnily enough, I never celebrated her birthday anyway!) and I think Pagan is being fairly representative when she says that a generalised 'we' don't do that. And you actually have no idea how you will feel about celebrity deaths in the future, when you have lost a lot more people whom you personally know and love and have a relationship with. So Pagan's 'Maybe losing enough 'real' people makes us immune to celebritiy losses' may still be true of you. We are talking in maybes here. Only you are talking in absolutes.
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26 Mar 2011, 01:08
Jessica [Private]
Post Count: 1751
I actually do sound very calm. I'm not sure how you really define angsty and over-reacting, but I know I haven't been either of those in this forum. As Anon Source has said many times. I have a sarcastic personality, and most people (from the looks of it, yourself included) take most of the things I say the wrong way.

If anything, I'm offended by people assuming that I feel sad for things, because they think I haven't had as many deaths and losses in my life as they have. Just like you've just done.

"And you actually have no idea how you will feel about celebrity deaths in the future, when you have lost a lot more people whom you personally know and love and have a relationship with."

I'm sorry, but you have no idea how many people I've lost in my life. I'm a late in life baby, I've lost the vast majority of my family, there aren't too many people left to kick the bucket in my life. So I don't forsee too much changing in the future in the way of my sympathy for celebrities who pass away. To me, any human life that ends is sad, regardless of whether I know them on a personal level or not. Be it a soldier, the people in Japan, victims of terrorist threats, or even (gasp!) celebrities.

Death is death, and it's sad to me.
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26 Mar 2011, 01:10
Jessica [Private]
Post Count: 1751
Excuse me, Terrorist attacks.

Not threats.
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26 Mar 2011, 01:43
Estella
Post Count: 1779
How do you know what you sound like? What you sound like is how other people receive what you are saying, and you can't speak on behalf of others. You may be calm in your head, but the way you post is clearly being interpreted by some as not calm.

To spell things out to your piss poor idiotic brain, maybe, just maybe, it's because, when you think you sound calm, you are simply totally ignorant of how fucking angsty and aggressive you sound when you totally overreact to what people say, taking it out of context, reading things they didn't actually say because you are just so keen for drama and confrontation, and you love to nurse your precious offended feelingz.

(I wrote the above paragraph in a totally calm way, but I imitated some of your style to show you the impact it can have. Of course, you may read it as totally calm and friendly and much nicer than my other paragraphs, but then you aren't necessarily typical here! Believe it or not, it can sound angsty and reactive to bold or underline a lot of words, and intersperse them with personal insults and also fucks and pisses, which generally come across as aggressive if your whole tone is confrontational.)

Sarcasm isn't a personality - it's a communication style, and as such can be used for different purposes. You can use sarcasm to bond with someone, to joke with them, to tease them, or to put them down. I didn't see you bonding or joking with or teasing Pagan. Whether you use sarcasm or directness is not the point - if your aim is to put her down, this is not about your personality being sarcastic, it's about your personality wanting to fight with people and put them down.

Anyway, why are you sorry that I have no idea how many people you've lost in your family? I never claimed to know. However, I know that it's highly likely you will experience more, and the impact of losses can change as you get older, and I know you are quite young, and so I was talking about as you get older. You don't know how you will feel about celebrity deaths in the future, because you can't predict the future. Thousands of people die every day, and maybe in the future, the celebrity deaths won't be the ones you are focusing on. Maybe they will be, but the point is that you don't know, so it's silly to jump at someone's generalised 'maybe', when they are speculating.

Neither Pagan nor I have made any assumptions about how many deaths you've had in your family. But now you've clarified this is what you felt offended about, this explains your tone more. But if you actually read the words people say, rather than assume to know what is between the lines, Pagan was saying that for herself, the number of deaths she has dealt with has stopped her feeling sad about celebrities and therefore she doesn't understand why others do feel sad. And she was speculating about whether when people have experienced a certain number of deaths, then maybe they won't feel sad about celebrity deaths. The word 'maybe' implies speculation. She has no idea about your losses, just as you have no idea about hers. And I was saying that maybe (again note the 'maybe') in the future when you've had more losses (note 'more losses' does not imply any knowledge about how many you've already had) you might feel differently. The point is the no one knows the future or the impact that things will have on them in the future, or how their reactions will change. So people can speculate with 'maybe', and they often do when they find another person's reaction to something completely alien to their own.

The overall point I am making is that your reaction to Pagan was not actually reflective of what she said. Hence it seems like an overreaction. Another way people can sound angsty is if they start arguing with something a person didn't say - it looks like they've made a knee jerk reaction rather than actually reading and thinking about it.
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