Yes I do understand that part. Which is what also made me skeptical; I'd love it if this was just some massive hoax. A horrible and disturbing one but then at least my mind would be at a bit more peace

It's shocking the other way around too. But that is not what we're discussing here at the moment.

I'm not very knowledgeable about the war, but this comment made me wonder just how many Iraqi civilians and U.S. soldiers have been killed in the war - so I did a little research. I don't have information about the validity of these sources, but you might find them interesting:

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
http://www.icasualties.org/OEF/index.aspx

By "this comment", I'm referring to "Apparenty, it's only shocking if it's us doing the killing, they can kill us all they want."

RedFraggle; I totally agree. It was the attitude behind the action that disturbed me most and you said it exactly the way I wanted too! :)

"A few"???? Really??? You think that only one or two people have killed thousands of our military members? Not to mention, these people do this to eachother! Not just to kill us, but to kill their own people. I realize there are many innocent people over there, but to say that just a few are killing our people is an ignorant remark.

Again, you're lumping people into categories, and that would be more ignorant than anything I could say in my own defense.

These are human lives, and you can go around killing civilians because someone else killed other people across the country.

My point in lumping people into categories, is that as a whole, they pose a threat. It's the way we are trained to see it. If we don't see it like that, we die, or the person right next to us dies. Unfortunately, those men have probably lost brothers or sisters in arms to this war. They've seen their best friend walk down the street doing nothing, and get shot in the head. They've gone to clear a building and seen their brother get blown up. This puts a bitter hate into people. It was wrong, but in their minds they've seen worse, they've felt worse. There are many soldiers who have so much hate for those people and that culture that even just an innocent person is an enemy. It's horrible and harsh, but it's the way this war has gone. I'm not justifying it, I'm not saying it wasn't wrong, or that the way this war has gone isn't disgusting, I just have an awful time seeing it from everyone elses' point of view, knowing it from a military point of view.

I can understand that. It's somewhere on the road towards post traumatic stress disorder.

But the point is that what they did, the way they acted is still wrong, and if they can't find a way to do their job professionally and looking at a situation objectively and not based on emotion, perhaps they shouldn't be in charge of pointing weapons at innocent people.

This is just disgusting. The arrogance of those soldiers makes me sick... the ENJOYMENT they were getting from KILLING, and killing people who clearly posed no threat. Even if they did mistaken the cameras for weapons... the people removing the bodies were clearly unarmed and not looking for any trouble.

And this is what made me most angry... "it's their fault for bringing their kids into a fight". WHAT FIGHT?! The people in the van quite clearly weren't looking for a fight. The only ones to blame for those children being wounded are the American soldiers who shot them.

Agreed.

You know for a fact they were enjoying it? Really? Even if they did "enjoy" it as you say, which I firmly believe they didn't, do you have any idea what has HAPPENED to these soldiers and their buddies while they have been over there? No, you have no clue. The things they have been through, have seen, it's unthinkable. I'm not saying it's OK for them to kill civilians, but this is blown way out of proportion. It is a WAR, they didn't just decide to go kill civilians one day. They didn't decide to just wound children on a whim. These people were casualties of war. Yes, it's sad. No, I wouldn't wish that on anyone, or anyone's child, but it is what it is. We are at war with this country, and sadly, civilians WILL get hurt, civilians WILL get killed. No one can change that. No matter how wrong they think it is.

Laughter and making jokes is a fairly good indication of enjoyment... Eagerly hoping someone who is clearly injured will "go ahead and pick up a weapon" so that they could open fire, was clearly them hoping for the opportunity to do some more killing.

More to the point... Where in the video is there ANY indication of reluctance to kill?

Oh, because you were THERE, of course? I must have missed THAT.

I take it you were there then?

No, which is exactly why I am not making judgements on these men. No one can truly say WHAT exactly happened over there, and what was going on in their heads except them.

You already have made a judgement in believing these men were not enjoying murdering those people, so you can't then call someone out for also making a judgement based on their own observations.

Thank you! :)

Even if they did "enjoy" it as you say, which I firmly believe they didn't

You weren't there, but you made an assessment of the situation yourself too. On what do you base YOUR belief that they weren't enjoying it? What evidence of any reluctance did you observe in the video?

No, of course not. All I said was "laughter and making jokes is a fairly good indication of enjoyment". I don't need to be there to make that point. It's basic pscyhology.

Oops, mistype! Psychology.

Have you ever thought that this is how they DEAL with situations like this? I have never once said this is justified, because I was NOT there. However, I do know a LOT about the things these guys have to see and do and deal with while they are there. It's hard to get into the mentality they need to go out and accomplish these missions. Most of these guys are SO young. Bottom line, they are doing their job. They are trained, you have no idea what their orders were, so if you don't like it, suck it up.

"if you don't like it suck it up"?!?

Firstly, how abouts you grow up and learn to control your anger a bit better? This is my OPINION and this is a public forum. The point is to discuss our opinions on a matter. If you can't handle that, then perhaps YOU should suck it up or get out of the forums?

And shooting innocent civilians is NOT doing their job. No matter what you think about why they did what they did, they were not doing their job.

Oh, I'm not angry at all. Just stating that your opinion on the matter is not going to change the fact that this happened. Nor is it going to stop it from happening in the future. And, yes, if you don't like it, you're going to have to just suck it up. This is a war, and civilians will get killed. It's part of WAR. It's sad, yes, but inevitable. As for them not doing their job, that is opinion, not fact.

So killing civilians is in their job description is it?

Well, your tone certainly suggested you were angry. Sounds to me like you're actually rather like these soldiers. You appear to be controlled by your emotions, and overreact to situations. No wonder you can sympathise with them.

Just stating that your opinion on the matter is not going to change the fact that this happened. Nor is it going to stop it from happening in the future.

Well, OBVIOUSLY! Why on earth would I think otherwise? Why on earth would you feel the need to point that out?! The point of a forum is to discuss opinions on a matter... it doesn't mean we think our opinions will change anything! But we are quite entitled to express them without having to worry about people like you getting all angry about it.

Seriously, I don't think you're mature enough to discuss these matters in the forums. Clearly you don't even get the point of having a forum for discussion.