*auto insurance.

You wont go to jail, honestly, they will probably do what they do with most child support debt, and take your tax refund to pay your fine. Thats the government making sure they get their money, and you wouldnt really have a say.

I used to be an independent agent with Aflac and there is supposedly a loophole that you can purchase Aflac as a form of insurance because they will help pay for a multitude of things from preventative care, ER, Major Diagnostic Exams, crutches, etc...The nice thing is you are looking at about $20 to $50 a month for a policy rather than hundreds with major medical.

I disagree with some points of the bill but there are good, beneficial points as well. Everyone should have health insurance. It's ridiculous how many have been going without and no doubt that healthcare reform is much needed...but some points of the bill are ridiculous like fining someone $696 if they don't have health insurance (a family of five could pay $3,480 in fines alone). If they can't afford insurance what makes them think they can pay a fine like that???

Just because they voted yes on the healthcare bill doesn't mean its passed. It still needs to get approved through the senate. Maybe they will tweak it. It certainly is a start though.

We're WAAAAY past that stage, Beth, yo. The House, Senate, sub committees, and full committees all passed it, and Obama signed it. It's law now.

It has different effective dates for different provisions. It will be in total effect by 2019. It won't be until 2014 that subsidies will be offered to families making less than $88,000 a year. That will also be the year when they will impose the fine for not having medical coverage.

This is the source I got this information from. It breaks everything down & tells you when everything will go into effect. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/23/AR2010032301714.html

My thing is, health care is EXPENSIVE. It always has been, since I've been alive. This is why I don't have it. We did not do anything about the price in the bill. THAT is what should have been targeted, NOT making everyone be required to have health care. Yeah, ok so they made provisions for poor people. That's great. Who is going to decide what's poor? Yeah, I make around $20,000 in a year. That's not poor in Ethiopia, but here... that's definitely no where near wealthy. And where is this MONEY going to come from? Anyone notice that we don't even have enough money to support the stuff we are doing right now? I don't need the government to tell me what to do with my body or my life. If I don't want health insurance for MY body, then guess who shouldn't have to get it? In America, the government is supposed to be FOR the people, BY THE PEOPLE. (I don't know to underline, so I use caps.) Yeah, President Obama "saved" X number of jobs (a made up number they couldn't verify) so now, they are "saving" X amount of dollars because of this bill. I'm sorry, you lied the first time... what makes me think they are telling the truth NOW?

Secondly, if it is SO great, why did they make an exception for themselves? (Those in Congress.) If it is so awesome, why wouldn't they include themselves? They have a different retirement plan, so they don't need to worry about social security ever becoming a problem for them, but you can be sure that the rest of us will still pay into that crap system. They don't worry about their salary ever not being enough to pay for their private jets or luxury hotel rooms, while in the everyday life, most Americans are struggling to get by. Oh yeah and now they don't have to worry about the American people's crap system of health care. Yay! They are becoming more like corrupt kings and queens (sitting in luxury while their people die of starvation) than they are a governing body.

Oh yeah and the whole job market. I know they CAN'T make jobs, that's not the government's job. BUT instead of worrying about health care, MAYBE they could have been worried about far bigger problems than people not being able to pay their medical bills.

I could go on and on and on. Such as how this whole, not being denied if you have a pre-existing condition crap really is wrong. Everybody wants something for nothing. Don't work for it yourself, don't make yourself a success... rely on those that ARE successes to pay for the things you want. I sound like a completely heartless person with no compassion and you know what? I'm inching my way there, slowly but surely.

I know I already posted this on your entry, but I'm mosting it here too, to add to the discussion.

Umm... Such as how this whole, not being denied if you have a pre-existing condition crap really is wrong. Everybody wants something for nothing.

Do you realise that the vast majority of chronic illnesses are NOT self inflicted?! For example, why should my friend who has just moved to the US struggle to find healthcare just because she has ulcerative colitis (a condition she's had since childhood which requires regular medication and which is of no fault of her own)?

I could have misunderstood you, but your last paragraph rather sounds as if you assume everyone with a pre-existing condition has it because of their own fault or their own lack of responsibility for their health.

And under the bill those with pre-existing conditions WON'T be getting "something for nothing", they want something for something rather than being refused anything at all. They'll still be paying for the insurance themselves (unless they are poor also). The point is that at the moment there's hard working American people who are willing to pay for health insurance but can't get it because the insurance companies refuse them because of a 'pre-existing condition'. You won't be paying for their health care on the new bill. They will.

Out of curiosity... if in a few years time you were to be diagnosed with something horrible like leukaemia or lymphoma... something which costs thousands (possibly tens of thousands) of dollars to treat... what would be your plan? (Bearing in mind you'd no longer be able to work and would also lose your income) Would you just accept your death? Or get treatment until your money runs out? Or try and get health insurance at THAT point? (Which under the new bill you would be able to do, but couldn't at the moment)

I'm not attacking you, I'm just trying to understand, and I think these are valid questions.

Is it still the case that they are exempt? Can you provide a reference for this? And what exactly are they supposedly exempt from? Fines for not having insurance? I'd guess probably the majority of congressmen have insurance anyway (their ability to afford it shouldn't be an issue), so I don't see how that would be of any benefit to them. In fact I can't see anything in the actual bill which would be worth being exempt from OTHER than the fines.

The job market is a seperate thing. It is not relevant to the discussion on the healthcare bill.

So you think my baby brother should be denied and basically left to die, because he was born with a kidney disease? Because that is what happens when you are denied because of a preexisting condition. My mother, and my two brothers, and my mothers fiance, all live in a one bedroom apartment, my mother works three jobs, just so she can keep herself afloat paying for treatment to just keep my brother ALIVE, not even to help fix the problems he has, because my mom cannot afford a kidney transplant. You tell me how it is okay for a mother of two to never see her children because she has to work all but 5 hours a day so she can afford to keep her son alive. You tell me how its okay for insurance companies to tell you that it sucks you were born with a condition because they arent going to cover you. To be honest, you sound like a heartless bitch. Maybe its because I directly deal with this every day, but honestly, I dont understand how people like you can have no caring about other people. Part of me wishes this bill never passed, so you would have to see what happens when suddenly you get a disease and fight for your life with no insurance, but I am not that cold of a person. All I can say, is THANK GOD congress didnt agree with you.

Everybody wants something for nothing. Don't work for it yourself, don't make yourself a success... rely on those that ARE successes to pay for the things you want.

i work extremely hard for what i have. i deserve to be treated at a hospital if i get sick because i work damn hard, every single fucking day, to keep my feet on the ground. you're making such a huge generalization...

i treat others how i would want to be treated. i would gladly give someone money so they could get better because i care about my fellow man. i GLADLY pay my tax dollars because i want to have an amazing life. want my neighbor to have a good life.

please don't tell me you've been watching fox news again.

Can you please answer my questions? I don't want to argue this with you, because I consider you a friend here, but I actually think if you answer the questions it will help me, and others, to understand where you're coming from, and let people see that you HAVE thought this stuff through.

Unless you already answered on the entry and i didn't get a message to tell me. :P I'll go look...

I'm not American but I love what Obama's doing for the less-fortunate. All of the rich bastards are angry, well stfu you can afford your own healthcare.

Thank god for Canada :D FREE HEALTHCARE WUT

And THIS is the garbage that conservatives are going crazy about. IT ISN'T FREE! That is such an ignorant thing to say.

I am embarrassed for her.

I know we have to pay more taxes, but we don't have to pay 300 $ every time we want an ex-ray!
Damn.

We have public healthcare and pay LESS taxes than the Americans! ;)

Oh and PS: I'm NDP.

Who said healthcare is free? AShley Winter? She lives in Canada. Maybe its free there, but its freaking expensive here!

Ahh, guess I got lost in the process, yo! Can't keep up! *blush*

My take on things is that there are obvious problems with our current health care system, things like people not being able to afford insurance and not being able to get insurance because of a pre-existing condition. This bill is an attempt to fix those problems. ANY attempt to fix these problems is worth pursuing. So it is entirely possible that this bill will make things worse than before, or it might make them better. I think it's worth trying to make it better.

Well, do you pay for healthcare? Just because you work hard doesn't mean you "deserve" anything. Also, if you get sick you CAN be treated at a hospital, anywhere in this country even if you aren't a citizen.

I don't want the government, which is supposed to be working for ME telling me what to do with my money, which they already do FAR FAR too much of. Being FORCED to give away your money isn't a good thing and it never will be. I have no problem helping people, if you knew anything about me personally, you would know that.

To clarify about pre-existing conditions, which I spoke far too abruptly on. Most people who don't like that they can't be covered once they have a pre-existing condition never had healthcare in the first place. How is a company supposed to pay thousands of dollars for your treatment when you haven't paid anything into the system? Any company in this country, unless it's a non for profit, is there to MAKE a profit. ALSO - now, why would I EVER want healthcare on a regular basis? Since there is this new pre-existing condition idea, I have no need of buying it until I really need it. Say, in 20 years and I get diabetes. Well, I just saved a ton of money by not paying monthly for healthcare and now they HAVE to cover me, regardless of the fact that they will be paying more than I did. I can't imagine getting into a car accident and not having insurance, but then expecting the car insurance to pay for the damage to my car.

MOST people are not like that, you are being far too judgemental. My brother had insurance until the day the diagnosed him, and they diagnosed him with a condition that developed before birth, the insurance company dropped him because of it. My aunt had insurance for 30 years, she lost her job, three months after losing her job she was diagnosed with brain cancer, no insurance would touch her. Personally I think you are far too judgemental, and you need to step back and look at the REAL picture not what you pretend it to be.

People aren't worried about whether or not they'll be treated at a hospital. They're worried about whether or not they can actually pay for it.

To clarify about pre-existing conditions, which I spoke far too abruptly on. Most people who don't like that they can't be covered once they have a pre-existing condition never had healthcare in the first place. How is a company supposed to pay thousands of dollars for your treatment when you haven't paid anything into the system?

Um, what? Do you seriously not see a problem with this statement?

Also, if you get sick you CAN be treated at a hospital, anywhere in this country even if you aren't a citizen

Only EMERGENCY treatment. I think this is an often overlooked, but very important distinction to make.

I'm trying to understand your third paragraph here. I know you were tired when you wrote it... but the car insurance thing doesn't make sense. Car insurance companies don't usually refuse insurance to people (if you've had previous accidents it usually just means the premium is high)... and if they were to refuse you it would probably be because you had a history of dangerous or irresponsible driving. Things which are the person's own fault. Having a pre-existing medical condition (which may have been present since birth... hence the person would NEVER have had the option of purchasing insurance) is usually not the person's own fault. So you really can't compare the two (even although I did earlier in a different context ;)).