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Something to think about. Gay Marriage.
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12 May 2012, 21:42
Post Count: 16

Some of the main points of this article include:

Contrary to myth, Christianity's concept of marriage has not been set in stone since the days of Christ, but has constantly evolved as a concept and ritual. Prof. John Boswell, the late Chairman of Yale University’s history department, discovered that in addition to heterosexual marriage ceremonies in ancient Christian church liturgical documents, there were also ceremonies called the "Office of Same-Sex Union" (10th and 11th century), and the "Order for Uniting Two Men" (11th and 12th century).

These church rites had all the symbols of a heterosexual marriage: the whole community gathered in a church, a blessing of the couple before the altar was conducted with their right hands joined, holy vows were exchanged, a priest officiatied in the taking of the Eucharist and a wedding feast for the guests was celebrated afterwards. These elements all appear in contemporary illustrations of the holy union of the Byzantine Warrior-Emperor, Basil the First (867-886 CE) and his companion John.

A Kiev art museum contains a curious icon from St. Catherine's Monastery on Mt. Sinai in Israel. It shows two robed Christian saints. Between them is a traditional Roman ‘pronubus’ (a best man), overseeing a wedding. The pronubus is Christ. The married couple are both men.

Another 14th century Serbian Slavonic "Office of the Same Sex Union", uniting two men or two women, had the couple lay their right hands on the Gospel while having a crucifix placed in their left hands. After kissing the Gospel, the couple were then required to kiss each other, after which the priest, having raised up the Eucharist, would give them both communion.

While homosexuality was technically illegal from late Roman times, homophobic writings didn’t appear in Western Europe until the late 14th century. Even then, church-consecrated same sex unions continued to take place.

Prof. Boswell's academic study is so well researched and documented that it poses fundamental questions for both modern church leaders and heterosexual Christians about their own modern attitudes towards homosexuality.

For the Church to ignore the evidence in its own archives would be cowardly and deceptive. The evidence convincingly shows that what the modern church claims has always been its unchanging attitude towards homosexuality is, in fact, nothing of the sort.

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13 May 2012, 03:36
Meghans Follie
Post Count: 433
if you do some research into this professor though you find some interesting things... like some of his purposed translations are blatantly wrong or misinterpreted. ... 'Rites of so-called "same-sex union" (Boswell's proposed translation) occur in ancient prayer-books of both the western and eastern churches. They are rites of adelphopoiesis, literally Greek for the making of brothers. Boswell, despite the fact that the rites explicitly state that the union involved in adelphopoiesis is a "spiritual" and not a "carnal" one, argued that these should be regarded as sexual unions similar to marriage. This is a highly controversial point of Boswell's text, as other scholars have dissenting views of this interpretation, and believe that they were instead rites of becoming adopted brothers, or "blood brothers" for one... I wouldnt trust much of what he has to say - whether or not I were to be Catholic.. Paglia; Boswell Reviews, The Washington Post, July 17, 1994 has some very enlightening information in it
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13 May 2012, 08:38
Post Count: 16
I don't think it's possible to base a solid argument on just one piece of evidence, but it certainly got me thinking about how marriage and views on homosexuality have evolved over the centuries. Whilst the adelphopoiesis was argued as 'spiritual' and not 'carnal'... how would we describe a heterosexual marriage using the same turns? Would that be 'carnal' rather than 'spiritual' in the eyes of the church?

Just thinking out loud now, but hasn't sex for the majority of the population become something different to what it was before the invention of birth control? Even a vast majority of Christians don't just keep pumping out children in our time because the majority of people can't afford to feed, clothe and look after that many children. Sex is important, yes, but I don't think it is the basis for most marriages/unions these days. I think the driving force that impels two people to want to get married IS a spiritual connection, whether that is religious or merely a strong sense of love and commitment for another person that comes not from the libido but from something much more complex.
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15 May 2012, 20:45
Post Count: 53
Those who oppose gay marriage because of their religion do so because of the Bible, not because of what may or may not have been a tradition in the church.
This issue has nothing to do with the church "ignoring the evidence in its own archives" at all. The so-called "church" has done numerous things in the past that are not Biblical. These actions are not something to base one's faith on.
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13 May 2012, 04:58
& skull.
Post Count: 1701
i just think it's amusing when religious people say that marriage has always been a religious ceremony. the church only started marrying people around 1000AD. for the longest time marriage had been about gaining property and strengthening social ties. it was rarely about love or a spiritual bond. a lot of the time the couple in question barely knew each other. it did eventually evolve into what people typically think of marriage now, but it just wasn't the done thing then. i mean if a male in the family died, and there wasn't an heir produced to carry on the family name, a daughter of the family would be forced to marry a male relative to produce one. she even had to divorce her current non-related husband to do so. doesn't sound quite as lovely does it?

just because you don't like something, doesn't make it morally corrupt and horrifying. same can be said for so many things. porn, video games, heavy metal, interracial marriage, etc. note that the world didn't come to an end when we got over people marrying different skin tones, it probably won't when homosexuals are allowed the same rights.
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16 May 2012, 01:03
Post Count: 288
This is worth a watch:
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