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Discussion Forums » General Discussion
Illegal Immigration Law in Arizona.
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14 May 2010, 05:53
Ashalicious
Post Count: 90
Hmm, I don't know. I live in New Mexico. Maybe they are lax because so many illegals come here and they want them to? I don't know, I honestly do not. Oh I'm sure that could be a possibility, I mean who wants to actually work all the time when they can just not and make money. Yeah in childcare! We don't have as much tourism as you do though. Here they run 2 checks on people I believe, one background check with your fingerprints and another through the Child Youth and Families Department to make sure you haven't committed any crimes against children. But I'm not sure if they did that process or not with the illegal immigrants who work there....hm, never thought of that. I now a lot of them had fake SSN's, so I don't know if they did it through those or just not at all. It really was depressing to see because these are people's children! And here with everything being so lax, you can fight your butt off and not change a darn thing. It was so frustrating because there should be much more diligence in allowing who cares for children! These people are left alone with children, most places do not have cameras in the rooms, so you really have no idea what's going on with your child after you leave them. It should not be that way at all. I remember an incidence where the boss hired a woman and left her with the kids (which you aren't supposed to do until their fingerprints and CYFD check clear), later it turned out the woman didn't have any fingerprints, literally! Like she had used acid to take them off! She had none and my idiotic boss had left her with the children!!
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14 May 2010, 15:29
Madeline Rain
Post Count: 151
You admit that illegals work harder and that's why employers prefer them. Don't you think that's a reflection on American values and work ethic, rather than a reason to keep out immigrants?
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14 May 2010, 16:15
Ashalicious
Post Count: 90
By work harder I meant more hours. Yes, a lot of Americans are lazy. I am not, I worked extremely hard, did jobs that were above my pay grade, and they did less as far as amount of work, but worked more hours. At times, I worked equal hours, until the department of labor came in and busted them for working us 60 or more hours a week without paying overtime. A lot of the illegals in the childcare industry as just as lazy as some Americans. The ones I worked with got to slack off a lot, which was not fair. If we have a problem with American work ethic then, again, that is something we need to take a stance on and fight to change. But that doesn't change the law.
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14 May 2010, 16:19
Madeline Rain
Post Count: 151
I'm not arguing with you, it was just a question. I personally think that Americans work too many hours and that's why we have problems such as obesity and high rates of stress and depression. Europeans work less hours and have something like, five weeks of paid vacation. Of course, Europe in general is more socialized and there's a different attitude towards work and rest. That has its pros and cons, and it's a matter of opinion to decide which system works best.
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14 May 2010, 16:44
Ashalicious
Post Count: 90
See and I have to wonder, because after working 60 hours weeks I felt horrible, I was awfully grumpy constantly, always tired, and I could feel it in my body. But I felt like I had to keep up and compete, the more hours the more money the better! I think some Americans work themselves too hard to material items, they are always trying to have the best. Having things is the center of what most people do in America. 5 weeks paid vacation?!! Are you serious??!! Wow! I would LOVE that! We were lucky if we even got a week! So why do you think there is a different attitude towards work and rest in Europe than there is here. We sure would have a lot less stress related health problems in America if we worked less and had a different attitude about it. I saw something once about Denmark, not only is it the happiest country, but they have such a relaxed attitude about things. They work, but don't over-work themselves, and they take time to enjoy their lives. I would love to live there!
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14 May 2010, 17:12
Tommy Decentralized
Post Count: 506
stand and fight for fair trade. the answer to the US economics problem.

pay extra if you must, and buy made in the US when ever possible.

avoid walmart as much as possible

demand universal health care. a means to bring the US out of debt. since forcing ones employer to pay for one's health care, has helped price US products out of the market.

we work long hours, bec employers don't want to hire more people at less hours a week, bec that's more health care they have to provide for more people.
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14 May 2010, 17:18
Ashalicious
Post Count: 90
But how much stuff is actually made in the US? I avoid Wal-Mart anyway, hate that place. But I do like Target.
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14 May 2010, 17:32
Tommy Decentralized
Post Count: 506
pretty much nothing is fully made in the US.


I mean you really have to search hard.

and that to would be fine, if we had fair trade.

the US has a trillion dollar a year trade debt for her products she consumes. the causes inflation on the dollar, the spreading of debt, and it causes job loss.

someone else foolishly said to you that the government should stay out of private companies businesses. and the result if doing that- are the bailouts we now have to pay for.

all private companies must be fully regulated, bec they do not have any sort of national interest, they only have an interest in te bottom line- greed
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14 May 2010, 17:37
Ashalicious
Post Count: 90
Oh, gotcha. I'm tired of company bailouts and I agree they need to be fully regulated by the government. All they care about are profit margins, and spending whatever company money they can on lavish trips and expenses. I'm not quite sure why our government keeps digging us into even higher and higher debt.
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14 May 2010, 17:04
Tommy Decentralized
Post Count: 506
which part of Europe?

does your country import more than it exports?

like the US does?

If so, your country will have huge economic problems, like the US does.

The idea is to print up money (debt, and IOU, worthless paper) and but up the world's resources, labor, and companies, for a debt that will never be paid.


The problem is the rest of the world is waking up to this, and do not want to deal with debtor nations. and of curse countries like the US see that as an act of war.

Not to mention how destructive the industrial revolution has been to our planet.

what you/we/everyone wants (or must want) With today's technology, there is absolutely no reason that all nations cannot provide for their own needs. Fair trade is a must, if one does need to trade. This is a win win for everyone.

This is wrong: "Sell a man a fish, and he can eat for a day, teach a man to fish, and you lose a great business opportunity." Karl Marx

This is right: "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime." chinese proverb
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14 May 2010, 17:05
Tommy Decentralized
Post Count: 506
buy* up the world's resources,...for a debt
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14 May 2010, 17:47
Madeline Rain
Post Count: 151
Iím only going to answer to the first part of your post because I cannot understand anything else you were talking about. Either you have ADD or youíve been spending too much time with those illegals, because your grammar and writing style are extremely poor.

Anyway, The United States does not have legally mandated minimum vacation days. That means that paid time off is a benefit, not a right. Most countries in Europe have a certain amount of days off dictated by law. For example, Sweden has 32, and Spain has 30. Souce: http://www.timesizing.com/1vacatns.htm

Now, the notion of the American Dream has taught us that the more we work, the more money we make. And in a business sense, itís true. America kicks ass in the corporate world because workers are willing to take a more intense approach than our European counterparts. We also make more money in average and therefore we have more stuff. Whether that means we have a higher standard of living remains a point of discussion that is besides this thread.

Some cultures find American approach to business and work-life balance as arrogant. In America the priority is material wealth and not health. The stress is on work and well, stress. Thatís why we have so many stress related health problems. We are all work and no play, and sometimes we lose quality of life because of this.

Finally, you keep talking about ďmy countryĒ. Assuming that you live in the U.S.; my country is your country. I just work in a multicultural environment and have made an assessment of both systems. Iím still not sure which one is best, though. On one hand, I love being compensated and managing my money as I please, but on the other hand, thereís really no monetary value on health and wellness.
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14 May 2010, 17:58
Tommy Decentralized
Post Count: 506
You should have just answered: I live in the US. and save your nonsense personal attacks for the drama forumz!

and the US is in a huge economics crisis. bec she does not have fair trade.

having fair trade means less work time, and more vacation time. fair trade means no national debts, and your dollar value increases.

without fair trade, you have crap. You have exploiting the world for it's labor, resources, companies, for a debt that ill never paid paid. and refusal to except US debt is seen as an act of war. Our dollar, fiat debt, is backed by military force.


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14 May 2010, 17:59
Tommy Decentralized
Post Count: 506
never be* paid
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14 May 2010, 18:00
Madeline Rain
Post Count: 151
And how is fair trade going to do all that? Please enlighten me.
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14 May 2010, 18:08
Tommy Decentralized
Post Count: 506
The US owes trillions of dollars to foreign central banks, like china, for the products she consumes. China does not buy an equal amount of US products.

The US is running on a trillion dollar a yr trade debt, and it;s growing. This cause job loss, of course. But it also causes inflation, the lowering of the value of the US dollar via the spreading of debt ie important more than you export.

The US once produced 80% of what she consumed. The people worked less, be we had a demand for our own products. and we were doing great, economically, and employment wise. we're not doing rat anymore. we have huge trade debts, that directly causes job loss, inflation, a poor economy, etc

It;s such a vicious cycle. When we do good economically via balanced trade. only one parent has to work, and so the children get raised a little more properly, which equates to less crime. with a poor economy, trade debts, both parents have to work. and our economy is shit.

You don't have to take my word on this. For enlightenment see: Economist Michael Hudson, and economist Steven Zarlenga
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14 May 2010, 18:21
Madeline Rain
Post Count: 151
I agree that a balance between imports and exports is key to a strong economy, but unfortunately, Americans love their cheap goods, and you can only obtain cheap goods with cheap labor, which comes from China and various developing countries.

Unfortunately, this is a vicious cycle. America is under a recession, so cheap goods are welcome. You can't make cheap goods in the US because we need to pay our workers higher wages than in China, therefore American products would be more expensive and noncompetitive against Chinese goods. And round and round we go.

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14 May 2010, 19:05
Tommy Decentralized
Post Count: 506
:)
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14 May 2010, 17:25
Tommy Decentralized
Post Count: 506
Illegals get taken advantage of, constantly. they have no one to complain to. That is a reason to keep them out, so they don't get taken advantage of.

I've worked with many illegals. not one has ever been able to work harder, or better than I. They show up on time, but the work ethics are shit. From what I personally saw.
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14 May 2010, 05:03
*Forever Changing*
Post Count: 847
You see, I know how hard it is to get a green card. My cousins husband immigrated from Mexico, and even after he was married to a citizen, he was denied citizenship to this country. I am not saying the current system is WORKING. We need to change those laws, but until then, people need to follow them. You cannot say you love the principles of this country in one hand and in the other stomp and spit all over those principles.

We need immigration reform, not to just hand people over citizenship and say, "thanks for being here illegally we appreciate it". We need a true system that works. Period.
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14 May 2010, 05:05
Chris
Post Count: 1938
So people should follow a system you admitted was broken simply out of principle? Why should they do that if you know the best solution for them is to find work here? If everybody followed these principles, no one would ever know that the immigration system is broken.
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14 May 2010, 05:11
*Forever Changing*
Post Count: 847
Honestly, yes. That is like a person living in a state where Medical Marijuana isnt recognized, but smoking weed anyway to help with pain. Do you have sympathy for that person? Yes, of course, everyone does, but they still don't get to just continue smoking it. We know this is broken, at least anyone who has a head on their shoulders should know its broken, but there still needs to be people following the law, it makes them no different then the people who come over here illegally and then drive on the road, get into an accident and kill someone. They are both in the wrong no matter why you are here.

What needs to happen is we need to close the borders. The people who are here need to take the citizenship test and be granted their citizenship here. Then once all the illegals who are here are taken care of should others be allowed to immigrate here.
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14 May 2010, 05:19
Chris
Post Count: 1938
Someone could easily make a point about a hypothetical law that you simply don't agree with. Like, if a law came into effect that both outlawed guns as well as an amendment repealing the second amendment. Or if death panels began to exist. Or, to exaggerate the point even further, what if a law came into place that forced you to kill any child you have past your second one. Would you follow these laws?
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14 May 2010, 05:20
*Forever Changing*
Post Count: 847
I dont agree with drugs being illegal but I do not do them. There are MANY laws I do not agree with but I follow them because they are law. You have two choices in this country, to follow the law or to break it.
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14 May 2010, 05:22
Chris
Post Count: 1938
But what about the hypothetical laws I presented?
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