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Discussion Forums » General Discussion
Circumcision.
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24 May 2010, 17:08
Mojo Jojo
Post Count: 278
I would never circumcise a child without medical need. I don't understand why you would happily sit there and watch part of your son's penis be cut off. You would never do the same to an infant girl with large labia.
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24 May 2010, 17:47
Acid Fairy
Post Count: 1849
How true! Some girls are insecure about how they look down there but we don't recommend them to go get surgery. They find someone who likes them for who they are, weird labia or not!
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24 May 2010, 18:02
Finally Mrs. Bailey
Post Count: 181
Those are cultural things too. Mostly performed in Islamic and African religions. I think in Hindu too if I remember correctly. They call them "clitoridectomies", where they cut parts of the labia out and stitch it back differently and tighter to make it better for the man...sick, I know. *shudders*
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24 May 2010, 18:40
~RedFraggle~
Post Count: 2651
How exactly is that any different to cutting off a bit of your son's penis? Why is THAT 'sick', but male circumcision isn't?
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24 May 2010, 19:22
*Forever Changing*
Post Count: 847
I dont see female circumcision as sick. Maybe its just me and my tolerance of other cultures, but I think that every one has their own beliefs, me eating pork is sick to some, but I would hope that they were tolerant of it. Me circumcising my son is sick to some, but to some not circimcising is sick, I think everyone has their own definition of what is acceptable and what isnt, as humans (in my opinion) all we can do is be tolerant of another person's beliefs. There are so many things people dont agree on, polygamy, homosexuality, breastfeeding, religion, war, politics, circumcision, carseat safety, all you can do is have a conversation with them about why they feel that way, if their reasons are "not enough" for you, then you can either accept it, or you dwell on it, and try to make them change, which probably wont work.

(This isnt just directed at you, more at everyone :))
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24 May 2010, 20:26
~RedFraggle~
Post Count: 2651
Well, at least you're consistent. I think it's hypocritical of a woman to say she would circumcise her son, but to think female circumcision is sick. That's double standards.
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25 May 2010, 03:56
Winged Centaur
Post Count: 301
If you're not familiar with female genital mutilation (fgm), you may not realize why it is considered "sick". Unlike male circumcision where the snip occurs at at a very young age (and thus the boys don't remember), for girls it usually happens closer to the age of puberty (ranges from like 4 to 14), so they remember the pain. Also, it is often done in unsterilized conditions with untrained midwifes (medically speaking). There are no benefits whatsoever, but there are several risks including severe bleeding, trouble urinating, and potential childbirth problems later. And it is done without permission in most cases.
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25 May 2010, 04:01
*Forever Changing*
Post Count: 847
I did not say I agreed with the procedures or the way they did it, I said I do not find female circumcision sick. If someone decided that their daughter was to be circumcised and it was done in a proper medical enviornment, then I see nothing wrong with it. I dont care if you dont agree or not, I am not going to belittle you, but just like RedFraggle said its very much a double standard to say that you agree with male circumcision, but not female. Just my opinion.
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25 May 2010, 04:12
Winged Centaur
Post Count: 301
Unfortunately, the majority of female circumcisions occur in the disgusting conditions I described, so hypothetically (because I do not personally agree with either) it can not be considered a parallel or double standard to agree with one (which is done in safe conditions for the majority of the time) and not the other (which is done in unsafe conditions for the majority of the time). Ignoring the hypothetical safe world where everything is done the proper way by the proper people, the male and female circumcision comparison is not equal.
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25 May 2010, 04:17
*Forever Changing*
Post Count: 847
I never said "I agree with putting children at risk in unsatisfactory medical conditions". I said "I agree with female circumcision". Period. You cannot compare female mutilation that you described, and male circumcision, it isnt the same thing. If you are going to compare it, you need to compare it to the percentage done in PROPER medical facilities. You can sit here and tell me all day that its the same thing, but it isnt. So let me revise my previous statement just so you (a general you) cannot put words into my mouth. I do not find female circumcision sick, when it is done with proper medical care and supervision.
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25 May 2010, 04:24
Winged Centaur
Post Count: 301
Sometimes it is very hard to be clear in text. I wasn't trying to say that you agree with the unsafe conditions that most fgm occurs in.

I was trying to say that it is not a double standard to agree with male circumcision and not female circumcision because (unfortunately) MOST cases of fgm occur in unsafe conditions at an age where the female remembers all the pain and it is done without said females' permission.
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24 May 2010, 19:54
Finally Mrs. Bailey
Post Count: 181
I said female circumcision is sick because it is used to make sex better for the man. To make "better wives". What does a woman get out of it? Male circumcision, IMO, has other uses besides sexual attractiveness. It keeps the penis cleaner, and therefore healthier. Female circ also seems like a riskier, more difficult procedure. Whereas male circ is just snip and done. I can't really answer the question of why circumcision for boys is so popular in America, except the fact that it seems to be a cultural trend. For various reasons, it's just a popular trend. I personally would circumcise my son(s) if I had any because that's what I feel and what my fiance feels is best.
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24 May 2010, 20:31
~RedFraggle~
Post Count: 2651
There's no medical evidence fo any health benefits from circumcision. As long as the child is taught good hygiene techniques they shouldn't have any problems. Very few British boys are circumcised (unless they're Jewish or Muslim) and I highly doubt American guys have significantly healthier penises than British guys!

Have you actually SEEN a male circumcision? It's not quite as simple as "snip and done" and it's VERY PAINFUL.

And how is having a boy circumcised for cosmetic reasons (as most have said here is their reason why they'll do it) any different from female circumcision to please her future husband? Either way it's a painful medical procedure which is not medically necessary. And to say you approve of one and find the other 'sick' is double standards, I feel.
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24 May 2010, 21:18
Finally Mrs. Bailey
Post Count: 181
Maybe, but that's what is culturally accepted here, and in other cultures; female circumcision is not, but is in other cultures. I don't believe in the cosmetic reasons: the "matching penises" (which I think is strange because how is a child's penis supposed to look like the father's, and why would that look at each other's penises as adults) or for women/men to prefer them. I would do it simply as a personal choice and if I were a parent I would be allowed to make such a decision.
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24 May 2010, 21:22
~RedFraggle~
Post Count: 2651
Yes but personal choice always has a reason behind it. If it isn't cosmetic reasons, then what is it?

And obviously it is YOUR choice to make, but I'm also perfectly entitled to point out the lack of logic in some of your arguments. Circumcision without proper anaesthesia is extremely painful. You are inflicting EXTREME pain on your child by choice, not because it's medically necessary. You will watch them SUFFERm by choice, You are HURTING the person you are supposed to love most in the world. The fact they don't remember it doesn't mean that the pain didn't cause them extreme distress, it just makes you feel less guilty, and it means they will never ask you "why did you make me hurt mummy?" because they are unable to communicate in words. It is still your choice to make, but that is the reality of what you are doing, and you have to live with that.
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24 May 2010, 22:10
Finally Mrs. Bailey
Post Count: 181
Never once did I say you didn't have the right to argue the logic. But I also have the right to my own opinions and my own beliefs without you trying to make me believe yours.
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24 May 2010, 22:18
~RedFraggle~
Post Count: 2651
I'm just telling you it how it is. It is up to you what you do with that information.
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24 May 2010, 22:29
Lovin'MyLittles
Post Count: 322
I noticed that no one posted a video which has surprised me. For all of you who have no children and are so *for* circumcision, here's a link to a full video of an infant circumcision.

Also, I think I replied to "Becoming Mrs. Bailey's" post in stead of the whole thread - not targeting you directly my dear. Just too lazy to hit the back browser.

http://fr.video.yahoo.com/watch/352478/2210721
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25 May 2010, 01:24
Miss
Post Count: 239
OHHHH my goodness i couldn't finish watching the whole thing. that hurt ME and i don't even have a penis.


as for me, i don't care whether my sons (if i ever have any) are circumcised or not. it makes no difference to me at all. but one thing to think about (in america, anyways) is how the boy will feel about it when he's older. my boyfriend is mexican but grew up in the united states and has told me that he wishes he had been circumcised. it's ridiculous, but he feels insecure about it. you have to think about how they'll feel when they're older and most likely they will prefer to be circumcised like everyone else. it can be looked at as cruel and painful, but honestly how many men out there can say that they even remember the pain? or even remember it happening at all? it's not like it's scarred them or anything, they're not going to be haunted by dreams of being circumcised lol. yes it's painful, but not harmful. they're not in any sort of danger. also, this is to no one in particular.

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25 May 2010, 01:33
jessi bear(:
Post Count: 300
if we have boys, my fiance will be the one to make the choice because he is a male and i feel like he should be the one to decide. he knew a boy that was made fun of in high school for not being circumcised. i honestly don't know how i feel about it, and i probably won't until i have children of my own, but dustin is glad he's circumcised and will probably choose that route for our children also.
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25 May 2010, 01:52
Lovin'MyLittles
Post Count: 322
Yeah it isn't a pleasant thing at all :(

We won't circ, and honestly.. do the boys really see each other's full out junk in gym class? Doubtful.. At least they didn't here. I didn't see my friends naked either, LOL.

For us, it's like saying.. well my boobs are different than her boobs, let me have cosmetic surgery to reconstruct my boobs so they look more like hers.. that's crazy to me.

It isn't the point of it being remembered, it's the point of having a painful surgical procedure done on your child without their permission.

If, at the age of 13-15 or whatever, my (hypothetical) son decides he wants to be circumsized, we'll pay for and take care of it then. At least it is his decision at that point.

I say it is VERY harmful to have skin cut off of a child without their consent without an anesthesia!
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25 May 2010, 02:22
jessi bear(:
Post Count: 300
at my high school, NOBODY used the showers, but apparently at dustin's they did :/.
and i know it's ridiculous for people to get surgery to make their body parts look like someone else's body part, it happens quite regularly. people don't want to be different.
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25 May 2010, 03:01
Jessica [Private]
Post Count: 1751
Yeah my school definitely didn't use the showers.

People in swim classes did, but they always left their suits on to do so.
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25 May 2010, 03:13
jessi bear(:
Post Count: 300
i thought it was weird. haha. but apparently all the guys showered there.
community showers just aren't my cup of tea lol.
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25 May 2010, 15:00
Mami 2 ♥ 1
Post Count: 361
community showers arent that bad. i had to use them alot in the army and you get over the whole OMG factor pretty fast. As a woman it helped my self esteem cuz seeing all those other women made me feel normal, they werent perfect either (if that makes sense).
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