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Discussion Forums » General Discussion
DON'T GET A FLU SHOT!
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21 Oct 2009, 10:03
~RedFraggle~
Post Count: 2651
You don't need to back up your opinion. But if you're so confident in your decision to put your children at risk of deadly diseases you really SHOULD be able to justify it with solid information, which you have shown yourself to be unable to do.
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22 Oct 2009, 06:04
Mishy
Post Count: 42
plus, if the information is so moving that it made you change your mind about vaccinations as a whole, I'd be genuinely interested to read what you read that made you change your mind. /made you so confident in your decision.
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22 Oct 2009, 06:30
~RedFraggle~
Post Count: 2651
That was my point. But she won't provide it because she knows that it won't stand up to being properly assessed as evidence should be.
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22 Oct 2009, 06:45
Mishy
Post Count: 42
you'd think with the amount of times she's thrown around the words "my own research" she'd be jumping at the opportunity to prove us mislead and show us the light she has been exposed to. Evidence that refutes medical evidence & years worth of research by medical professionals.
[I am enjoying, however, how often the argument that "there are people in poor, underdeveloped nations that live long lives without being vaccinated" as proof that it's all a hoax to get into their bank account has been thrown about. Which is very similar to the "my grandpa smoked since he was 13, and is now in his 90s, and he never got cancer" argument. Like the exceptions prove a rule. I love it. Its so wonderfully illogically.]
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21 Oct 2009, 09:30
& skull.
Post Count: 1701
why do i get the feeling people purposefully go looking for "information" that casts vaccinations in a bad light so they can justify not having to get them? seriously, i cannot find anything that makes me think i don't want to continue to get booster shots or new vaccine shots that come out that are appropriate for me, or not want to have my kids vaccinated. would any of the nay sayers care to provide me with some linkage to sites that have legitimate reasons not to have them done?
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21 Oct 2009, 10:04
~RedFraggle~
Post Count: 2651
No-one has actually managed to present any of that information here so far though, which says it all really.
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21 Oct 2009, 11:54
Mojo Jojo
Post Count: 278
Although personally I wouldn't have the flu vaccine, the fact that it exists is a testimony to the efficacy of modern medicine. Those who are against immunisations as a whole might like to imagine life before routine vaccination was brought in.
My grandmother and her two sisters had diphtheria in the 1940s. Diphtheria causes a membrane to grow either across the nose or throat - if you're unlucky enough to have both grown over, you die. Or at least you did then. It's contagious. They were treated in an isolation hospital a long way from where their parents lived. When their parents visited, they had to view them through glass and weren't allowed to touch or speak to them. Any presents brought in were burnt once the girls were better again, as was all their bedding and clothes. They were in hospital for SIX months, a huge chunk out of their lives at the time.
Although medicine has come on in leaps and bounds since then, diphtheria can and does still kill children and adults. In the 90s, there was a huge outbreak in the former USSR after the vaccine programme broke down, killing 5000 people. I'm sure my great grandmother would have given anything to prevent her children becoming so very sick, especially something so small as a quick injection.
Vaccinations are not some evil plague wrought by pharmaceutical companies to kill us all and then take our money. They have improved life expectancy among children IMMEASURABLY in the last 60 years, and eradicated some previously widespread infections, such as smallpox.
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21 Oct 2009, 13:16
Acid Fairy
Post Count: 1849
Nicely said.
One of the reasons vaccination uptake has fallen is because, due to vaccines, we don't see children dying from such illnesses anymore. I think people aren't aware that these illnesses can and will kill your child! However, that won't last long if people keep buying into scare mongering.

Do what you want to yourself. Don't have your tetanus jab, or your MMR update. But don't deny your children the chance to avoid such life threatening illnesses.
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22 Oct 2009, 06:12
T.A.I
Post Count: 269
Woah god.

You bolded "WILL" next to "Kill your child"

Stop using scare tactics to make people think they need vaccines! :O

/sarcasm
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22 Oct 2009, 12:45
Acid Fairy
Post Count: 1849
But gosh, I thought scare tactics were the only way to persuade these people... after all, they listen to the media's!!
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22 Oct 2009, 09:48
lithium layouts.
Post Count: 836
Good post. Today's society has forgotten the horror of pre-vaccination days.
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21 Oct 2009, 13:13
Acid Fairy
Post Count: 1849
In that Wired article I linked to earlier, it states that in 1976 there were 1,000 reported cases of whooping cough. In 2004, because vaccination rates have fallen, there were 26,000 cases.

If small pox were around now, I don't think it would ever be eradicated. But of course, you're doing the best for your child and everyone else by not lining the pockets of the evil pharmaceutical companies, which obviously makes it all ok! :)
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21 Oct 2009, 13:19
Acid Fairy
Post Count: 1849
Ooh, and can I ask: to all the mothers who aren't getting their kids vaccinated; were you vaccinated? Did you experience a bad reaction from it? Did it give you autism? Did it kill you? No? Well then.
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21 Oct 2009, 16:59
blogger
Post Count: 18
I was not vaccinated with anything except the tetanus shot. No, I have had no adverse effects, thank you. Yes, I was being ironic, I have the unique ability to maintain my sense of humor while listening to people state their strong opinions that oppose mine. I was not trying to debate, I was trying to state an opinion. Like I said, opinions are like rear ends...everyone has one, I was simply showing mine. You don't like it, don't look.
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21 Oct 2009, 17:02
Chris
Post Count: 1938
A. You don't know what "ironic" means
B. If you're going to post your opinion in a public thread, be prepared to have your opinions challenged. If you don't like it, don't post to the thread.
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21 Oct 2009, 17:02
blogger
Post Count: 18
And, who funds the research that you put up above? Do your digging and find that out. I have discovered that proctor gamble funds a lot of cancer research, now that is irony.
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21 Oct 2009, 21:21
~RedFraggle~
Post Count: 2651
HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THIS? Honestly, it's like speaking to a brick wall. You'll never see the evidence that supports vaccines because even when it's waved right infront of your face (and even when it's clearly NOT produced by pharmaceutical companies) you'll still choose to ignore it. Classic example of ignorance.

The international statistics on life expectancy and mortality rates are NOT produced (nor funded by) pharmaceutical companies! They are produced independently and not in relation to any sort of vaccination campaign! They are produced every few years based on national census statistics. The figures I posted earlier were published by the CIA, and were based on their international database. But in May this year the WORLD HEALTH ORGANISATION produced a list which was very similar, with the same countries at the top of the list, countries which just so happen to have national vaccination campaigns. NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH PHARMACEUTICALS OR VACCINATION CAMPAIGNS.

You on the other hand have failed to produce here ANY evidence which supports your view. That is quite simply because you do not have that evidence. The amount of time you've spent here, arguing, and speaking in riddles, and dodging questions you can't answer, you could quite easily have posted the evidence if you had it. But you don't. You've based your decision on scare tactics, lists of harmless ingredients and a misunderstanding of the disease process. I just hope that as a result of your mistakes you don't one day have to watch a child of yours die from the measles or meningitis.
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21 Oct 2009, 17:09
blogger
Post Count: 18
excuse me, Phillip Morris, not proctor and gamble.
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22 Oct 2009, 06:17
T.A.I
Post Count: 269
A lot of pharmaceutical companies fund research on diseases and viruses and cancer. However, think for a moment:


How else are you going to get the resources to fight those diseases? It's not like Microsoft has access to biology labs in-house and a staff of trained medical scientists walking around. Most research done gets published in medical journals and is up for scrutiny by thousands of other people, if not millions, around the world.

If you're trying to say that these companies are up to something sinister, I have a strong feeling that it's quite possible, but unlikely given the transparency of a lot of their research and partnerships. Like the Ponzi schemes that fall apart and expose those involved, the same would happen of anything going afoul in the medical industry, so long as there are people like you to remain skeptical. Flaws and greed eventually get faced with justice.
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21 Oct 2009, 17:12
blogger
Post Count: 18
I'm not the one who said originally said my statement was ironic redfraggle did. I didn't say I didn't like to have my opinion challenged, you did, I find it rather fun and humorous to see so many people so upset over MY decision.
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21 Oct 2009, 18:41
blogger
Post Count: 18
http://www.vancouversun.com/health/Province+suspend+shots+after+vaccine+safety+questioned/2042224/story.html
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21 Oct 2009, 21:41
~RedFraggle~
Post Count: 2651
Haha. I should have known that the only 'evidence' you could provide would be a newspaper article (and even then, at best, all this study shows is there may be a problem with the flu vaccine and swine flu, it can't possibly be used in an argument against other vaccines about far more deadly diseases like measles and meningitis).

There is no information I can find on that study, on how it was conducted, numbers etc. So based on the newspaper article alone it's impossible to come to any conclusions about the significance of their results. Not to mention there have been similar studies in the US, the UK and Australia, none of which have shown any suggestion of a link. It is also entirely possible that people who have been vaccinated against seasonal flu will be more likely to be TESTED for swine flu should they later develop flu like symptoms (which could give misleading results).

You'll need to do better than that. Come on... all this research you've said you've done... where is all the evidence you found from your extensive research, which shows vaccines to be harmful?
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21 Oct 2009, 19:12
Chris
Post Count: 1938
lol Who's upset? Don't flatter yourself, your words on a forum thread aren't nearly as upsetting as you think they are. Anyway, you submitted to having your opinion challenged when you posted it on a discussion forum.
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21 Oct 2009, 21:25
~RedFraggle~
Post Count: 2651
No-one is upset by your decision. Frustrated perhaps, because while I respect a parent's right to choose whether or not to vaccinate their child, it worries me greatly to hear of children being put at deliberate risk of disease which could kill or seriously disable them just because their mother is unable to properly interpret the information that is out there, and who will give in to scare tactics and myths and lies produced by campaign groups. What sort of person WOULDN'T be a little concerned, to see a child being put at risk by their own mother. What is more concerning is your whole childish attitude to the discussion... it's like it's a game to you... but it's your children's LIVES. If you cared about them, you would at least READ the evidence being provided here, and ask questions, and try and understand it. But instead you want to prance about, saying you're finding it 'fun'!?!
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21 Oct 2009, 19:20
blogger
Post Count: 18
And I said I am rather enjoying being challenged. I have been fairly polite until now. Are you capable of doing the same?
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